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Here are the guys that are thought of as being in the McVay Coaching Tree per the sporting news.
I went with first position coach job instead of just first NFL job. Often at the same place, but not always. Either way, none of these are McVay's guys by this standard.
Zac Taylor: Dolphins in 2013. Joe Philbin coaching tree.
Matt LaFleur: Redskins 2010. Mike Shannahan tree.
Brandon Staley: Bears 2017. John Fox.
Jedd Fisch. Broncos 2008. Mike Shannahan.
Kevin O'Connell. Browns 2015. Mike Pettine.
If we use the same standard for Tomlin's coaches and McVay's. Then McVay also appears to have no one in his coaching tree. Are people picking these guys to be part of McVay's tree ridiculous because they are "just picking [a] job they got in the middle of [their] career[s] as the starting point because it's [their] favorite [young coach]"?
For the record I don't think so. But I do think that "coaching tree" arguments are kind of ridiculous for this reason (as I said upthread). Even the things I've listed here aren't always their first NFL job. And many of them had coaching jobs in the NCAA first. Should they be part of that coaching tree instead?
I think "coaching trees" are just a thing that got made up along the way to put guys like Bill Parcells on a pedestal. I think it's really just a sign of the incestuous hiring practices of NFL coaching (we're not the only team where the HC seems to only hire people they have a persona connection too). Especially since most of they guys from really successful coaching (like Billy B) end up failing.
Now...IMO the real reason that our coordinators don't usually go on to HC jobs is that we seem to prefer hiring experienced coordinators who have often already failed at being HCs after being above average coordinators. These guys are often old (DLB) or already proven to not be good HCs (Haley). I think that's a reasonable strategy. People often get promoted away from their area of expertise to something they aren't that good at. So, hiring them back in their area of expertise seems like a good plan to me.
I think the recent trend toward hiring internal guys without much effort to look for the best candidate is not a good strategy.Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 09-02-2022, 10:11 AM.Comment
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I have no problem saying McVay's tree is exaggerated, too, if that's the case. I just think crediting only Tomlin with Arians is disingenuous.Comment
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Lmao.. wait. A coach who likes to throw vertically with 7 step drops is from the Schotty tree?
Do you really give Schotty credit when he was a running back coach from 89 to 92 and then spent 6 years in college climbing the ranks as an OC until returning as a QB coach?
I think Arians has been around so long he doesn’t really belong to a tree.Steelers 27
Rats 16Comment
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Also...maybe he's from the Peyton Manning coaching tree.
I bet Manning is the one who taught him the most about football.
And it seems like the most important thing he learned from Manning was "try to take jobs where you have a hall of fame QB". Which wasn't really a cornerstone of Marty's philosophy
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I think that's reasonable. I think Arians was more or less a finished product when he was here.
But I don't think that coaching trees matter.
The mark of a coach is wins and losses.
Not whether or not his guys get hired somewhere else. [Edited to add: Especially when NFL coaching hires seem to be based on relationships more than merit]
I think it's kind of weird to say that a Head Coach is bad because he's had a lot of success with bad coordinators...doesn't that kind of mean that it's the HC that's more responsible for the success? I think that's pretty much what happened in NE (along with have the GOAT with a relatively low cap hit...and a good amount of cheating).Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 09-02-2022, 10:59 AM.Comment
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I agree with NB.. I think its a silly thing to argue over as evidence of anything.
I do feel like where a coordinator has the most success is the reason they get HC opportunities.
If a guy gets hired as a position coach and then has like 10 years bouncing around before a coordinator gig is offered can you really give credit to the first coach who hired him for a completely different position?
When teams win other teams come calling. That is usually how it works. No idea why coaching tree’s became a barometer for anything.Steelers 27
Rats 16Comment
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Finally...my guess is that ALL coaching trees are exaggerated in this way (which is why I think the concept of coaching trees is kind of stupid).
Let's look at Tony Dungy and Mike Vrabel.
Who's tree is Dungy part of? I would say Noll. He played under Noll for half of his 4 year career and coached under him for 6 years early in his career. But his first job was as a DB coach in Minnesota (Bud Grant). Did the one year he spent with the Vikings shape his understanding of the game and how to coach it more than his time as a player, or his time under Noll as a coach? Who knows? But the story is better if he's part of Noll's tree. Because Noll was one of the greats. But if it's first NFL coaching job, he's part of the Bud Grant tree...no credit to Noll.
What about Mike Vrabel? Who's the guy that shaped his knowledge of football and coaching the most? Was it in the 4 years he played under HoF coach Bill Cowher? The 8 years he played for the GOAT HC? His first coaching job at Ohio State? But his first NFL job was in Houston. So while everyone probably thinks of him as part of the BB coaching tree (while we likely think of him as Cowher's boy), he's a member of the Bill O'Brian coaching tree.Comment
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I think that coaching trees are nothing more than an interesting bit of trivial information like the Tomlin non-losing season streak, or the Ravens pre-season win streak. Might be an odd piece of info, but until somebody can show me where it translates to success it is meaningless.Comment
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