The Too Early 2018 QB talk

[Starlifter]

It’s funny. Tommy Maddox has always been my hero. He turned in a great season to make cowher move on from kordell, and then he followed it up with a dismal season so we had to draft Ben. I’m sure Colbert knows what he’s doing. Should be an interesting draft!

[Steel Maniac]

It’s funny. Tommy Maddox has always been my hero. He turned in a great season to make cowher move on from kordell, and then he followed it up with a dismal season so we had to draft Ben. I’m sure Colbert knows what he’s doing. Should be an interesting draft!

It is a deep QB draft...supposedly. I say that because so many QB's will be taken ahead of our pick that we should be getting at least 1 or 2 super studs that fall to us. And we need to take one of those and worry about QB somewhere later in the this draft.

Because the reality is that out of the top 5 QB taken, sixty or more percent won't pan out to be franchise type QB's. We need to pump up as many QB's as we can to be great because that's just going to give us a great opportunity to really get studs in our areas of need.

I have zero faith in any QB's who run well. From what I see, based on Super Bowl history, I'll bank on a guy who's a pocket passer first over any running QB. The only QB that I see that might have what it takes is Rosen; the others are "maybe's" and "with possibly the right coaching" type of guys. Nope. Give me the classic pocket passer.

[RuthlessBurgher]

$30m or whatever first round picks get these days.

The first pick in round 1 in 2017 (DE Myles Garrett to the Browns) got a 4 year, $30,412,255 contract (average annual salary of $7,603,064).

The last pick in round 1 in 2017 (OT Ryan Ramczyk to the Saints) got a 4 year, $8,891,554 contract (average annual salary of $2,222,889).

[feltdizz]

If he isn't going to get any better than he is right now, why would the Steelers draft him? If he's hit his ceiling, let some other team take him to be a permanent backup, the Steelers, I think, will be looking for the QB to replace Ben.

Pappy

because I think once you hit your ceiling in college there is no where to go but down. Could his footwork improve? Could he get better at progressions? Maybe.

The problem is is he will be facing the same subpar college defenses and same subpar schemes. Plus he will have the same subpar OL that will force him to run and increase the chances of injury without a legit paycheck.

Its hard to get better against lesser competition. I think this is why most players leave early. Luck stayed his senior year and IMO I didn’t see him improve. If anything he looked worse his senior year but maybe I’m misremembering.

[papillon]

because I think once you hit your ceiling in college there is no where to go but down. Could his footwork improve? Could he get better at progressions? Maybe.

The problem is is he will be facing the same subpar college defenses and same subpar schemes. Plus he will have the same subpar OL that will force him to run and increase the chances of injury without a legit paycheck.

Its hard to get better against lesser competition. I think this is why most players leave early. Luck stayed his senior year and IMO I didn’t see him improve. If anything he looked worse his senior year but maybe I’m misremembering.

Financially and from a risk standpoint, 100%, he should probably come out, but I think a player does get better even against inferior competition and athletes going from a junior year to a senior year. What you look for in that case is domination. He should be dominant against "inferior" athletes and competition, if he isn't well maybe he has peaked. I know football is probably the ultimate team sport, but QB is a high profile position and as a player you do get a chance to stand out even with lesser player on your own team. I don't recall Luck's senior year at all,I don't really follow college football very closely, so I can't really comment on whether he got better or worse from junior to senior years.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

It is a deep QB draft...supposedly. I say that because so many QB's will be taken ahead of our pick that we should be getting at least 1 or 2 super studs that fall to us. And we need to take one of those and worry about QB somewhere later in the this draft.

Because the reality is that out of the top 5 QB taken, sixty or more percent won't pan out to be franchise type QB's. We need to pump up as many QB's as we can to be great because that's just going to give us a great opportunity to really get studs in our areas of need.

I have zero faith in any QB's who run well. From what I see, based on Super Bowl history, I'll bank on a guy who's a pocket passer first over any running QB. The only QB that I see that might have what it takes is Rosen; the others are "maybe's" and "with possibly the right coaching" type of guys. Nope. Give me the classic pocket passer.

The game is changing. Sure, you want a guy who can stand in the pocket and throw strikes but why pass on a guy who can stand in the pocket AND run for a first down if needed?

Russell Wilson is the perfect example. Cam Newton runs but he also can stand in the pocket and throw. Dobbs is going to be the same way.

[feltdizz]

Financially and from a risk standpoint, 100%, he should probably come out, but I think a player does get better even against inferior competition and athletes going from a junior year to a senior year. What you look for in that case is domination. He should be dominant against "inferior" athletes and competition, if he isn't well maybe he has peaked. I know football is probably the ultimate team sport, but QB is a high profile position and as a player you do get a chance to stand out even with lesser player on your own team. I don't recall Luck's senior year at all,I don't really follow college football very closely, so I can't really comment on whether he got better or worse from junior to senior years.

Pappy

stat wise Lamar is dominating the competition. He has done it for 2 years and has a Heisman and was another finalist this year.

I think the risk of injury is much higher than his chances of improving his game as a senior.

I would leave leave if I was him.

[Steel Maniac]

The game is changing. Sure, you want a guy who can stand in the pocket and throw strikes but why pass on a guy who can stand in the pocket AND run for a first down if needed?

Russell Wilson is the perfect example. Cam Newton runs but he also can stand in the pocket and throw. Dobbs is going to be the same way.

Russell Wilson and Cam are exceptions...all the other experiments of trying to have QB's to do both well have failed. The failure rate is too high. Let someone else try and experiment and make a running QB legit from the pocket too.

[Steel Maniac]

For Every Russell Wilson and for every Cam, I can give you dozens of failures.

I wouldn't touch Lamar Jackson; He looks to be in line with the other dozens of failures. The game is changing???? What type of passer won the super bowl last year??

[Slapstick]

Russell Wilson and Cam are exceptions...all the other experiments of trying to have QB's to do both well have failed. The failure rate is too high. Let someone else try and experiment and make a running QB legit from the pocket too.

Or, build an offense around him instead of trying to square peg/round hole him...

[Steel Maniac]

Or, build an offense around him instead of trying to square peg/round hole him...

I hear you; but most OC will tell you it's much easier to build an offense around the traditional pocket QB. OC's have spent their careers building around pocket passers; so why have a OC come in and build around something he's traditionally not practiced to build around before?

All the more reason that I want a traditional guy who can pass from the pocket for a high percentage.

[Slapstick]

I hear you; but most OC will tell you it's much easier to build an offense around the traditional pocket QB. OC's have spent their careers building around pocket passers; so why have a OC come in and build around something he's traditionally not practiced to build around before?

All the more reason that I want a traditional guy who can pass from the pocket for a high percentage.

I get it...we’ll see which teams go the easy route...

[feltdizz]

For Every Russell Wilson and for every Cam, I can give you dozens of failures.

I wouldn't touch Lamar Jackson; He looks to be in line with the other dozens of failures. The game is changing???? What type of passer won the super bowl last year??

For every Brady I can give you HUNDREDS of failures...lol.

This whole "look who won the SB" as proof is foolish. Only a chosen few win SB's and it's not just because they stay in the pocket. Some QB's win because they have good FG kickers or defenses that score points.

This notion that Steve McNair, Randall Cunningham and even Vince Young "failed" is crazy talk. Not winning a SB isn't failing. What's crazy to me is a guy like Vince Young could be 30-17 as a starter and somehow be viewed as a failure as a QB. That's CRAZY. Yet, you have some terrible QB's like TJ Yates and Brock Osweiler in the league.

Tyrod Taylor was benched when they were 5-4 for a pocket passing rookie and he threw 5 INT's in the first half. Hell, I even like Peterman and expected better but they put him in a tough spot.

Dak Prescott, Mariotta, Russell Wilson, Cam.. it's possible to have success with a running QB. The college game is different and we are going to see more of these hybrid QB.s who can run but they can also throw from the pocket.

[feltdizz]

Or, build an offense around him instead of trying to square peg/round hole him...

Cam, Russell, Dak, Marriotta are all succeeding in the NFL. Deshaun Watson lit up the league before his injury.

Now don't get me wrong. QB's who can't throw at all won't make it but we are seeing more QB's who can throw from the pocket and also take off for big yards if it's there. HS and colleges have embraced the read option and these kids are throwing all over the field like crazy. It's not the 90's where you had Nebraska QB's who only throw the ball 4 times a game.

[Northern_Blitz]

...Probably the deepest since Ben’s draft...

QBs drafted in Ben's year [draft position]

[1] Manning
[4] Rivers
[11] Ben
[22] JP Losman
[90] Matt Schaub

The earliest we can pick is probably something like 26/27. I think it's pretty unlikely to get a franchise QB in that range (see results above from a deep QB class). We're way more likely to get a career backup / journeyman where we pick...and we probably already have 2 guys like that on the roster.

The best way get get a franchise QB is to pick in the top 10. The only reason we got Ben at 11 was because the Browns were unbelievably stupid.

We should play out Ben's career trying to put as much talent on the field as we can. Then, hope that Jones / Dobbs give us a terrible season so we can get another good / great QB. There will be very good football players at the end of the first, but they probably won't be QBs.