Canada's Offense

[NJ-STEELER]

This is the stuff that upsets me and makes me question tomlins authority.
Coaches become the scapegoat and get axed every year for allegedly not doing something Rooney or Tomlin wanted.
A couple years ago Rooney said we need to run the ball. Why didn’t we run the ball then?
The OC gets blamed for a crappy offensive scheme. Why was he allowed to run it all season with no accountability?

strange isn't it.

of course you get the usual suspects blaming it on ben as always and once again teflon tomlin escapes criticism

[NJ-STEELER]

The answer is out there. Ben isn't comfortable with play action. I read one article where it said Ben's yards per attempt and passer rating was better without play action vs play action.

The coaches break this stuff down. Reminds me of when they noticed that Timmons played better without the green dot. They also noticed that Bud and TJ should switch sides.

QB's are generally are more comfortable with reading defenses from shot gun than turning their backs to the defense.

There are some other reasons for a lack of play action that come to my mind.

well they certainly got a chance to change things around if they wanted to. no?

ben went out the 2nd game of the season in 2019. facing a major rehabilitation on his throwing arm.

on the roster was a young QB with a first round grade according to members on the staff and on a rookie contract.

with likely having a higher pick then they usually get every year, they could have addressed those needs even further.
would have anyone faulted them for going that way given ben's age, injury,salary/cap hit and apparent inabiltiy to run the offense like coach lombardi wanted? err, i mean how coach tomlin wanted?

i won't rehash it, but we saw what rooney, colbert, tomlin and other FO personnel chose to do?

why are you against their decisions ?

[NJ-STEELER]

yada yada yada yada yada...

The owners don't care

The coach doesn't care

The players don't care

Only a small group of constantly complaining fans defend the integrity of the organization because they know best

there's 3-4 posts insulating that the HOF quarterback of this team is the downfall of this offense (and therefore team because the defense is obviously Championship quality) because he doesn't want to run play action passes. something he's done (very well) in the past

why are you not addressing them complaining about him or the team?

[NJ-STEELER]

I honestly don't know what to expect with Canada.

Does he have a " system " Or is the type of coach who uses what he has, system be darned! Can he really coach up and develop a young player? Or ultimately is he going to be an OC than Tomlin hires and fires that no one else promoted?

.

the last few years this team has had HOF wr in AB. a HOF QB in Ben. Juju, Bryant, DJ and now claypool

at running, after bell left they've had... well we all know so i won't bother to list them

and people wonder why the game plans were geared more to the pass ???

yassssss, lets feature the connor's snell's and samules of the world.
the league won't know what hit them geniuses
lolololol

[BURGH86STEEL]

well they certainly got a chance to change things around if they wanted to. no?

ben went out the 2nd game of the season in 2019. facing a major rehabilitation on his throwing arm.

on the roster was a young QB with a first round grade according to members on the staff and on a rookie contract.

with likely having a higher pick then they usually get every year, they could have addressed those needs even further.
would have anyone faulted them for going that way given ben's age, injury,salary/cap hit and apparent inabiltiy to run the offense like coach lombardi wanted? err, i mean how coach tomlin wanted?

i won't rehash it, but we saw what rooney, colbert, tomlin and other FO personnel chose to do?

why are you against their decisions ?

This is the thing. The offense was designed around Ben. Several factors come into play. I am not going to sit here and attempt to explain everything. I'll let you think about it for yourself. Maybe you can reach some logical conclusions?

1st round grades don't matter. Grades can vary from draft to draft depending on the talent that's available. Ultimately what matters is performance. Mason showed some potential but do you think he performed like a 1st round talent? I don't. Draft grades are draft grades and mean diddly pooh squat when the lights go on.

I am not sure what needs in which you refer?

Maybe the organization felt they owed it to Ben to give him one more chance at competing for a Super bowl? He helped bring the franchise 2 Super bowl wins and several winning seasons. Plus I think Ben showed enough potential to come back for a year coming off an injury that held his future in doubt. Maybe Ben can perform better this season considering he will have a full off season to prepare? No one knows. The optimist in me believes Ben can perform better. Better to be an optimist than a pessimist.

I am not really against any decisions. I attempt to understand why the organization made certain decisions. I don't control the direction or decisions of the organization. Better to attempt to understand than to b**** and moan.

[NJ-STEELER]

This is the thing. The offense was designed around Ben. Several factors come into play. I am not going to sit here and attempt to explain everything. I'll let you think about it for yourself. Maybe you can reach some logical conclusions?

yes, the coach and OC devise a plan around the QB. that's ususally the recipe you see with championship level teams. if their plan was forced into something different then what they wanted, why are they not moving on from the key ingredient. like i said above

1st round grades don't matter. Grades can vary from draft to draft depending on the talent that's available. Ultimately what matters is performance. Mason showed some potential but do you think he performed like a 1st round talent? I don't. Draft grades are draft grades and mean diddly pooh squat when the lights go on.

what in the hell does it matter what you think?? who are you? someone who is paid by the steelers for his opinions on this thinks he's a 1st round grade. maybe he wasn't given enough time to work into growing into this QB they saw.
there's definitely posts on here that expressed how good he was in the last game of the season and how he would have been the better choice in the playoff game... just search for them

I am not sure what needs in which you refer?
the needs to bring the team from the one molded around ben into a run oriented play action pass offense that would bring us a championship

Better to attempt to understand than to b**** and moan.

ahh, ok.

in the future, i'll try to attempt to understand some of the hair brained decisions our coaching staff makes rather then bitch and moan about them

you are definitely someone to emulate on here as you never bitch and moan about certain players. thx
lol

[BURGH86STEEL]

ahh, ok.

in the future, i'll try to attempt to understand some of the hair brained decisions our coaching staff makes rather then bitch and moan about them

you are definitely someone to emulate on here as you never bitch and moan about certain players. thx
lol

Oh they did move on from the recipe. Unfortunately, it's difficult to overcome the loss of a franchise QB. Other factors had an impact on the entire picture. It's not cut and dry.

I only pointed on that based on what I observed that 1st round grades don't always matter. For example, 1st round players went bust over the years for the Steelers and other organizations. What matters is how players performed.

I really don't need to search for anything regarding Mason Ruduloph. He might be the answer long term or he might not? No one knows at this point. We'll see.

There are no guarantees in the NFL regarding this play action offensive philosophy. Simply because there are many factors involved.

What I've observed is that offenses with franchise QBs generally run through franchise QBs. That's simply because most offensive production and scoring comes from passing the football. Having the ability to run the ball is nice in this day and age. Ultimately, QB performance impact the games to a much larger extent.

Yes it's much better to attempt understand even if you agree or disagree with decision making. If you want to b**** and moan I have a pacifier for you.

Sorry I am generally not a b***** and moaner.

[Northern_Blitz]

there's 3-4 posts insulating that the HOF quarterback of this team is the downfall of this offense (and therefore team because the defense is obviously Championship quality) because he doesn't want to run play action passes. something he's done (very well) in the past

why are you not addressing them complaining about him or the team?

The QB is the most important part of the team.

Our QB has had an excellent career. He will be a HoF QB. Should be 1st ballot IMO (although I won't be surprised if it takes him more than once due to the rape allegations).

But he fell apart at the end of last season.

There were certainly other issues (bad running game, defensive injuries to key players, etc). But when your cap hit is that big, you need to be a big part of carrying the team. Or at least not be the one digging the hole the team is climbing into.

A lot gets made of our poor recent playoff history. But Ben has been horrible in our last two playoff games and he's the biggest reason for the losses. That's objectively true, not speculation based on what the coach might or might not be doing on the sideline or in practice before games.

He's a high variance live by the sword / die by the sword player. And like Favre, he's dying by the sword more often as he ages.

I think we should have had better coaching, defense, and blocking in the playoff game (and down the stretch too). But none of that matters in a game where your center gives the opposing team a TD on the first play and your QB throws 4 INTS.

He threw a pick once every two possessions for about a quarter and a half (2 in our first 4 possessions, and 3 in our first 6). And in the 3 possessions he didn't throw a pick we had: MP snap for a TD to the Browns / 7 plays for 23 yards / 3 plays for 9 yards / 11 plays for 37 yards).

By the end of that 6th possession, our offense had a total of 78 yards and no points and their defense had 53 yards and a TD (although Pouncey certainly takes the most blame for 20 yards of that and the TD).

Ben is the biggest reason for the last two heartbreaking playoff losses. Although at least he threw those two games away early so we didn't have to bite our nails thinking we had a shot.

[BURGH86STEEL]

The QB is the most important part of the team.

Our QB has had an excellent career.

But he fell apart at the end of last season.

There were certainly other issues (bad running game, defensive injuries to key players, etc). But when your cap hit is that big, you be a big part of carrying the team. Or at least not be the one digging the hole the team is climbing into.

A lot gets mad of our poor recent playoff history. Ben has been horrible in our last two playoff games.

He's a high variance live by the sword / die by the sword player. And like Favre, he's dying by the sword more often as he ages.

I think we should have had better coaching, defense, and blocking in the playoff game (and down the stretch too). But none of that matters in a game where your center gives the opposing team a TD on the first play and your QB throws 4 INTS.

He threw a pick once every two possessions for more than a quarter (2 in our first 4 possessions, and 3 in our first 6). And in the 3 possessions he didn't throw a pick we had: MP snap for a TD to the Browns / 7 plays for 23 yards / 3 plays for 9 yards / 11 plays for 37 yards).

By the end of that 6th possession, our offense had a total of 78 yards and no points and their defense had 53 yards and a TD.

Ben is the biggest reason for the last two heartbreaking playoff losses. Although at least he threw those two games away early so didn't have to bite our nails thinking we had a shot.

Fair or unfair a franchise QB is going to take the large brunt of the blame when the team wins or loses. Franchise QBs catch most of the blame and receive most of the credit.

No player or coach has a bigger impact on the out come of the games than a franchise QB. It's why franchise QBs get paid substantially more than any other players. Franchise QBs can impact the run game, passing game, scoring, resting the defense, ect ect ect.

We didn't make it this way. I guess it's just the way it is in professional football?

[NorthCoast]

the last few years this team has had HOF wr in AB. a HOF QB in Ben. Juju, Bryant, DJ and now claypool

at running, after bell left they've had... well we all know so i won't bother to list them

and people wonder why the game plans were geared more to the pass ???

yassssss, lets feature the connor's snell's and samules of the world.
the league won't know what hit them geniuses
lolololol

"Geared" toward passing is fine. But excessive passing isn't helping the cause (see my earlier post on Roethlisberger's record when attempting >30 passes.)
The entire org is at fault for letting Roethlisberger run the offense. In some ways having Haley as OC would have forced him to either run what was called or retire as he threatened. Either might have been a good thing.

[BURGH86STEEL]

"Geared" toward passing is fine. But excessive passing isn't helping the cause (see my earlier post on Roethlisberger's record when attempting >30 passes.)
The entire org is at fault for letting Roethlisberger run the offense. In some ways having Haley as OC would have forced him to either run what was called or retire as he threatened. Either might have been a good thing.

Teams can't force franchise QB's to do anything. Teams have a difficult time winning consistently without franchise QBs. Head coaches/coaches generally don't win out over franchise QBs for obvious reasons.

[NJ-STEELER]

"Geared" toward passing is fine. But excessive passing isn't helping the cause (see my earlier post on Roethlisberger's record when attempting >30 passes.)
The entire org is at fault for letting Roethlisberger run the offense. In some ways having Haley as OC would have forced him to either run what was called or retire as he threatened. Either might have been a good thing.

when bell was on the team they were much more balanced with the run and pass. lots of people even said they ran the wheels off bell.
so who is at fault for not addressing that area in the draft, for picking (in 6 years) 9 out of 12 defensive players in the first 2 rounds of the draft?

other pass heavy teams have addressed that part of the offense with high picks or free agency. the saints for example bringing in mark ingram and drafting kamara. pats used a 1st rounder on sony michel even when brady could throw the ball on every down and be successful

before this year tomlin, colbert and company thought they could fix that area with an over drafted local guy james conner, and two or three other 3rd day picks
is it starting to sink in yet what drafting one sided on a certain side of the ball does to other areas of the team?

[NJ-STEELER]

Sorry I am generally not a b***** and moaner.

actually the lol after i mentioned emulating you is because you do bitch and moan about it

does a week ever go by without you placing blame on the QB here for a little something to absolutely everything..

this week's edition brought to you in this thread

[NJ-STEELER]

The QB is the most important part of the team.

Our QB has had an excellent career. He will be a HoF QB. Should be 1st ballot IMO (although I won't be surprised if it takes him more than once due to the rape allegations).

But he fell apart at the end of last season.

There were certainly other issues (bad running game, defensive injuries to key players, etc). But when your cap hit is that big, you need to be a big part of carrying the team. Or at least not be the one digging the hole the team is climbing into.

A lot gets made of our poor recent playoff history. But Ben has been horrible in our last two playoff games and he's the biggest reason for the losses. That's objectively true, not speculation based on what the coach might or might not be doing on the sideline or in practice before games.

He's a high variance live by the sword / die by the sword player. And like Favre, he's dying by the sword more often as he ages.

I think we should have had better coaching, defense, and blocking in the playoff game (and down the stretch too). But none of that matters in a game where your center gives the opposing team a TD on the first play and your QB throws 4 INTS.

He threw a pick once every two possessions for about a quarter and a half (2 in our first 4 possessions, and 3 in our first 6). And in the 3 possessions he didn't throw a pick we had: MP snap for a TD to the Browns / 7 plays for 23 yards / 3 plays for 9 yards / 11 plays for 37 yards).

By the end of that 6th possession, our offense had a total of 78 yards and no points and their defense had 53 yards and a TD (although Pouncey certainly takes the most blame for 20 yards of that and the TD).

Ben is the biggest reason for the last two heartbreaking playoff losses. Although at least he threw those two games away early so we didn't have to bite our nails thinking we had a shot.

i've said this multiple times on here and yet i keep seeing the same stat over and over.

do me a favor and just go look at one of those brief highlight thingies on youtube so you ( and maybe everyone) knows i'm not making this up.

there was exactly 1 bad (play) interception by rothelisberger that led to a 28-7 browns lead.
are you faulting him (4 ints you stated) for the ball going right thru DJs hands? something we aw DJ do all year.... led the league in dropped passes.
just how in the hell did "he throw away the game early"
the whole team stunk. pouncy, DJ, one of the top ranked defenses.
unfortunately thats not the first time we've seen a tomlin led team get outperformed that badly in the postseason

to expect a comeback or" great stats" down by that much that early is wishful thinking. i would hope a playoff team's defense can tee off in such a situation. I would certainly expect ours to do the same

[NJ-STEELER]

Teams can't force franchise QB's to do anything. Teams have a difficult time winning consistently without franchise QBs. Head coaches/coaches generally don't win out over franchise QBs for obvious reasons.

so you're saying Ben has more say with the team then tomlin does?

Am i interpreting that correctly?