Canada's Offense

[Northern_Blitz]

Great timing and post.

I was just listening to a pod cast with Dejan K and Ramon Foster on DKsportsPittsburg ( best steeler site). It was music to the ears.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2021/05/10/ramon-foster-show-dk-pittsburgh-sports-radio-ben-roethlisberger-run-the-ball-steelers

Ramon goes on and explains that the type( Athletic, able to move out in space and 2nd level) of OL ( Banner, Chucks, Haeg, Green, Finney) we have now are perfect for the outside zone blocking scheme ( did I word that right). So FA moves and draft on OL should be perfect for Canada.

And the 2 missing keys were a TE like Freiermuth and a one cut RB like Harris.

It should look like San Fran with misdirection and movement....
I can't wait till mini camp kicks in and we start getting a better picture.
This offense is going to crazy...

Thanks George

I'll check that podcast out. Does Foster do regular shows? I can't find it in my podcast app, but maybe it's just at DK?

Edited to add: Looks like it's all just under one feed "DK Pittsburgh Sports" instead of Ramon having his own feed. I had listened to Chris & Tony when it was "Locked On", but that podcast got a lot worse when Tony left and it was just Chris.

[Northern_Blitz]

Play-action is the key to getting the Steelers offense going;...

I think the data that shows how more PA leads to better Rushing (and not the other way around) really hones in on Oviedo's point that buy in from Ben is key.

Do you know if they separated out the different kinds of PA that you talked about (PA, RPO, fake handoff out of the gun)? It might be interesting to see if success rates or EPA are different for these subsets of the data.

I know that I've heard people talk about potentially trying to add pistol as a way of trying to get some better PA quality and quantity while making it easier to get Ben to buy in.

[NorthCoast]

BAL play action works because of the threat to run with LJ.

RPO isn’t nearly as effective with a QB who never takes off running. It actually forces Ben to pass much faster because it usually means there is a DE or LB crashing down on the RB or going directly at Ben.

You would think that, but even old man Brady made it successful;

Per Pro Football Reference, Brady throws an average of seven play-action passes a game. He’s ninth in yards passing (782) and 14th in attempts (86). (out of PA in 2020)

[NorthCoast]

I think the data that shows how more PA leads to better Rushing (and not the other way around) really hones in on Oviedo's point that buy in from Ben is key.

Do you know if they separated out the different kinds of PA that you talked about (PA, RPO, fake handoff out of the gun)? It might be interesting to see if success rates or EPA are different for these subsets of the data.

I know that I've heard people talk about potentially trying to add pistol as a way of trying to get some better PA quality and quantity while making it easier to get Ben to buy in.

This info was pieced together from a couple of sources but they did not separate the different types of PA. However, the quoted parts give a clue that different PA formations have different success rates, e.g. if overall PA averages 0.17 EPA, and shotgun PA averages 0.21, then there must be others that are less successful (<0.17).

I don't mean to rehash the negativity around Fichtner. But honestly his gameplanning smacked of laziness or simply relenting to Roethlisberger to 'go make plays'. By the end of the season they were simply so predictable it didn't really challenge the defense into making mistakes.

[Northern_Blitz]

This info was pieced together from a couple of sources but they did not separate the different types of PA. However, the quoted parts give a clue that different PA formations have different success rates, e.g. if overall PA averages 0.17 EPA, and shotgun PA averages 0.21, then there must be others that are less successful (<0.17).

I don't mean to rehash the negativity around Fichtner. But honestly his gameplanning smacked of laziness or simply relenting to Roethlisberger to 'go make plays'. By the end of the season they were simply so predictable it didn't really challenge the defense into making mistakes.

Thanks for highlighting that, I think I missed that PA in shotgun had a higher EPA. I would have guess it was less effective without the data.

[Northern_Blitz]

Great timing and post.

I was just listening to a pod cast with Dejan K and Ramon Foster on DKsportsPittsburg ( best steeler site). It was music to the ears.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2021/05/10/ramon-foster-show-dk-pittsburgh-sports-radio-ben-roethlisberger-run-the-ball-steelers

Ramon goes on and explains that the type( Athletic, able to move out in space and 2nd level) of OL ( Banner, Chucks, Haeg, Green, Finney) we have now are perfect for the outside zone blocking scheme ( did I word that right). So FA moves and draft on OL should be perfect for Canada.

And the 2 missing keys were a TE like Freiermuth and a one cut RB like Harris.

It should look like San Fran with misdirection and movement....
I can't wait till mini camp kicks in and we start getting a better picture.
This offense is going to crazy...

It's pretty cool to hear him talk a little bit about the difference between man and zone blocking schemes. I've heard these terms a lot this off season and would like to learn more about the differences and how they might change what the offense looks like when running the ball.

Anyone around here know about line play and have thoughts about this strategy and the ability of our guys to run it?

[NJ-STEELER]

you need a good running attack for play action to work.

do you think defenses even care if conner/snell got the ball?? connor could miss a hole 5 yards wide like in the video i posted in the green thread

[feltdizz]

you need a good running attack for play action to work.

do you think defenses even care if conner/snell got the ball?? connor could miss a hole 5 yards wide like in the video i posted in the green thread

yeah.. the chances of Conner or Snell making you pay for a missed assignment was pretty low.

[NorthCoast]

you need a good running attack for play action to work.

do you think defenses even care if conner/snell got the ball?? connor could miss a hole 5 yards wide like in the video i posted in the green thread

The data say it's the other way around. Play-action sets up the running game. I found this to be non-obvious but multiple studies show it to be the case;

Forget about running to set up the play-action pass. NFL teams should be taking the opposite approach: Calling more play-action to slow linebackers down from getting to their run fits.

We have an ever-growing body of evidence that teams don't need to run often -- or run well -- to set up play-action. Play-action works for teams that run frequently, infrequently, well, or poorly. For the vast majority of teams, it just works.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

It's sad and frustrating the Steelers couldn't use this fact to help improve the run game last season. But you have to a QB willing to execute PA and execute it well.

[Steel Maniac]

The data say it's the other way around. Play-action sets up the running game. I found this to be non-obvious but multiple studies show it to be the case;

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

It's sad and frustrating the Steelers couldn't use this fact to help improve the run game last season. But you have to a QB willing to execute PA and execute it well.

How much do you expect to see Ben under center this coming season?

[Black&Gold]

How much do you expect to see Ben under center this coming season?

not much

Canada likes to run a pistol offense

[hawaiiansteel]

Unveiling the offense: Those in attendance today got a first on-the-field look at what new offensive coordinator Matt Canada has planned for his platoon.

"I love my fit, it's perfect," Freiermuth said. "I'm very happy that I'm here in Pittsburgh.

"The offense is awesome. I think it's very complex and I think it's going to utilize the talent we have on this roster. From the first 'walk through' today, felt great, felt like I understand most of what's going on.

"It's complex but it's simple in the same way. I think Coach Canada puts guys on the field where they can create mismatches and I think he does a good job just kind of understanding and kind of figuring out what the defense's weaknesses are. I can kind of see that with the looks he gave out there for the 'look' team today and what he's put together."

Freiermuth said there's "a decent amount" of pre-snap motion.

He's also anticipating a healthy dose of two-tight ends sets with veteran tight end Eric Ebron.

"For sure," Freiermuth said. "Ebron, he's an awesome guy. He's a hell of a football player. I'm excited to learn for him and kind of see what is tasked for us in '12 personnel,' what we do, what we're asked to do. I'm excited to see that stuff."

https://www.steelers.com/news/taking-the-field

[NJ-STEELER]

The data say it's the other way around. Play-action sets up the running game. I found this to be non-obvious but multiple studies show it to be the case;


understood. I'd say it works for both

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

It's sad and frustrating the Steelers couldn't use this fact to help improve the run game last season. But you have to a QB willing to execute PA and execute it well.

why is the coach not demanding the QB he has chosen to start and the OC he has chosen for the job to run more play action?

if they deemed it AS an important factor, why do they fill out the RB corps with the likes of
connor, snell, mcfarland. all 3rd day picks (connor was slated to go in the 4th/5h rounds)

[NorthCoast]

How much do you expect to see Ben under center this coming season?

Running PA from under center is only one type.

[NorthCoast]

why is the coach not demanding the QB he has chosen to start and the OC he has chosen for the job to run more play action? that right there is one of the great mysteries of the universe. I hope they some day learn the answer

if they deemed it AS an important factor, why do they fill out the RB corps with the likes of
connor, snell, mcfarland. all 3rd day picks (connor was slated to go in the 4th/5h rounds)

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