Tomlin

[whatever]

He doesn't understand when he believes it's simply about right vs wrong.

I believe that Ben's post season poor play is more at fault than Tomlin.

Yet when Ben plays well, the Tomlin fans want to point to Tomlin and give him the credit.
So I guess it’s a trade off. Tomlin lovers want to give him the credit, Tomlin haters want to give him the blame.

[Northern_Blitz]

Yet when Ben plays well, the Tomlin fans want to point to Tomlin and give him the credit.
So I guess it’s a trade off. Tomlin lovers want to give him the credit, Tomlin haters want to give him the blame.

Maybe it's because I'm not a "Tomlin lover".

But I think the SB wins (and most playoff success we have) is mostly due to player execution (with QB play being the most important part).

But do you think Ben can play 4 games against good teams in a single elimination tournament and not have a game with 2 - 4 turnovers? I don't think he can do that anymore based on his recent playoff performances. And that's why I think we should have walked away from Ben this year (even though it would have been a painful year).

Maybe if he only has to throw 20-some passes every game because we have a great running game.

But at least one of those playoff team defenses will take the run away and make Ben beat them with the pass. And recent history suggests he can't really do that anymore. Especially if our offense is slow to score (as has been the case under many OCs) and our D rolls out the red carpet for the opposing offense. A bunch of very early turnovers really hurts in playoff games too.

[whatever]

Maybe it's because I'm not a "Tomlin lover".

But I think the SB wins (and most playoff success we have) is mostly due to player execution (with QB play being the most important part).

But do you think Ben can play 4 games against good teams in a single elimination tournament and not have a game with 2 - 4 turnovers? I don't think he can do that anymore based on his recent playoff performances. And that's why I think we should have walked away from Ben this year (even though it would have been a painful year).

Maybe if he only has to throw 20-some passes every game because we have a great running game.

But at least one of those playoff team defenses will take the run away and make Ben beat them with the pass. And recent history suggests he can't really do that anymore. Especially if our offense is slow to score (as has been the case under many OCs) and our D rolls out the red carpet for the opposing offense. A bunch of very early turnovers really hurts in playoff games too.

I’m not sure Ben can do it either.
Apparently Tomlin thinks he can because he hasn’t made any coaching decisions to alter the game plan.

[Northern_Blitz]

I’m not sure Ben can do it either.
Apparently Tomlin thinks he can because he hasn’t made any coaching decisions to alter the game plan.

I think we probably should have sat Ben in the 2nd Cincy game. But doing that opens a huge schism in the team and we also know that Rudolph isn't good, so declining Ben could still have been the best of bad options.

And running more wasn't an option since we really sucked at it.

Ultimately you have to play the hand you've got. And passing all the time was the only thing that was working. Until it wasn't anymore. Hopefully having a more creative OC will help.

Although maybe not until the QB retires depending on how much influence he had on the game plan...I think a lot, but obviously I don't know that.

[Steel Maniac]

I think we probably should have sat Ben in the 2nd Cincy game. But doing that opens a huge schism in the team and we also know that Rudolph isn't good, so declining Ben could still have been the best of bad options.

And running more wasn't an option since we really sucked at it.

Ultimately you have to play the hand you've got. And passing all the time was the only thing that was working. Until it wasn't anymore. Hopefully having a more creative OC will help.

Although maybe not until the QB retires depending on how much influence he had on the game plan...I think a lot, but obviously I don't know that.

Doesn't this then make you feel excited about the possibilities once we get the O-line fixed and get the running game going? Taking a lot of the offensive pressure off of Ben? I"m really excited about what we do to fix this in our first 3 picks.

[whatever]

I think we probably should have sat Ben in the 2nd Cincy game. But doing that opens a huge schism in the team and we also know that Rudolph isn't good, so declining Ben could still have been the best of bad options.

And running more wasn't an option since we really sucked at it.

Ultimately you have to play the hand you've got. And passing all the time was the only thing that was working. Until it wasn't anymore. Hopefully having a more creative OC will help.

Although maybe not until the QB retires depending on how much influence he had on the game plan...I think a lot, but obviously I don't know that.

Hasn’t the running game been an issue for years?
So the hand he was dealt was his own doing.
The OC he picked?
The declining OL which has been ignored.

[Northern_Blitz]

Doesn't this then make you feel excited about the possibilities once we get the O-line fixed and get the running game going? Taking a lot of the offensive pressure off of Ben? I"m really excited about what we do to fix this in our first 3 picks.

I think it's a tall order to get it turned around in one season. Especially one that will probably have a shortened off season again.

I reserve the right to become excited depending on the outcomes of the draft and training camp.

But I'll believe that the offense is better when I see it get better.

I have more faith in the defense based on their success in the last two years, even though they had a terrible playoff game. Particularly Heyward who I expected to absolutely dominate against dramatically inferior competition.

[whatever]

Doesn't this then make you feel excited about the possibilities once we get the O-line fixed and get the running game going? Taking a lot of the offensive pressure off of Ben? I"m really excited about what we do to fix this in our first 3 picks.

The OL should have been addressed last year and qb should be this year.

[feltdizz]

Yet when Ben plays well, the Tomlin fans want to point to Tomlin and give him the credit.
So I guess it’s a trade off. Tomlin lovers want to give him the credit, Tomlin haters want to give him the blame.

There is a reason players like Ben make 4X what a head coach makes.

This idea that Ben doesn’t get the credit when we win is hilarious.

Tomlin’s winning percentage isn’t 100%.. but its pretty high compared to most head coaches.

The losses are on his resume too bjt we have eyes and we see when games are lost due to a ton of TO’s vs terrible execution.

I’ll put it this way. If we lose a playoff game where we win the turnover battle I will put the blame solely at Tomlin’s feet. But you cannot have early turnovers in playoff games and not blame those who keep giving the ball away.

[Northern_Blitz]

Hasn’t the running game been an issue for years?
So the hand he was dealt was his own doing.
The OC he picked?
The declining OL which has been ignored.

Do you honestly think he was the one most responsible for the things you list here?

I believe that Ben picked the OC after threatening to retire to get Haley fired. This was almost certainly a decision from upper management to appease Ben after a successful power play.

And I'm not sure he's most responsible for the construction of the OL. He's not BB (HC + GM). But the HC is obviously part of this too. But when should we have drafted more OL? We certainly didn't have cap space to bring in an impact UFA.

I don't think it would have been good to use high draft picks to draft OL who were only going to sit behind entrenched starters. Especially if it meant not drafting TJ of Bush (or acquiring Minkah).

We were trying to hold everything together to make a real run last year. And it just fell apart because important guys seem to have aged out (Pouncey and AV, and maybe Ben and Decastro too).

The coach has some responsibility for that. But he's not first on the list of people responsible IMO.

Clearly others believe that the coach has more power than I think he does.

[NorthCoast]

I have no problem assigning blame to Tomlin when it seems he deserves it. I've said before I think Tomlin/Butler were outcoached defensively against the Browns in the playoff. But even there it's tough to eliminate the effects of the early offensive failure by the QB and center.

[Northern_Blitz]

The OL should have been addressed last year and qb should be this year.

Should we have not drafted Claypool or Highsmith?

Claypool looks like a high impact WR.

Highsmith looks like he'll at least be an average starter. And not drafting him would just mean that the huge emergency would be at OLB this year and not OC or LT. And it means that Marsh would have been the starter after Bud went down...which wouldn't have been good.

And we did get Dotson, who looks like a reasonable starter.

I think there's an argument for not trading for Fitzgerald. I hated the deal at first. But I came around after I learned about the super low cap hit Minkah would have for multiple years. A great value for a guy who is and will likely continue to be at least a pro bowl player. If you think this was a bad deal, I think more responsibility falls at the feet of the GM than the coach (who also would have had input). And honestly a deal that big seems like it would almost certainly have to have been OK'd by Art II.

[Northern_Blitz]

I have no problem assigning blame to Tomlin when it seems he deserves it. I've said before I think Tomlin/Butler were outcoached defensively against the Browns in the playoff. But even there it's tough to eliminate the effects of the early offensive failure by the QB and center.

This is true IMO.

Particularly how the Browns schemed to defeat Heyward. It was shocking to me that he could be so ineffective when the matchup was so strongly in his favor.

[hawaiiansteel]

I’m sure your friend will blame Don Shula for the last 30 years.. lol.

if only the Dolphins would have fired Shula earlier they wouldn't have hired Adam Gase and won multiple Super Bowls

[hawaiiansteel]

I was on the message board during the Cowher years and I used to give him a pass because he had everything but a QB. I never called for Cowher's head. Not once.

yeah, I'm sure you were totally okay with Bill Cowher when he went 7-9 and 6-10 in '98 and '99 and then went 6-10 again in 2003.

and you never questioned his philosophy of trying to win a Super Bowl without a franchise QB.

because you're not the kind of guy who questions head coaches when they go 10+ years without winning a Super Bowl.

got it.