Le'Veon Bell

[Captain Lemming]

I think Russell Wilson was viewed as a mediocre passer before he was drafted.

Nobody is talking about before he was drafted. You are not arguing "my point".
I did not know who Russell Wilson was in college.
I never viewed him as "run first" because he had a 100 passer rating AS A ROOKIE Dizz, not because of the SB.

Northern summed it up perfectly.

When a mobile QB fails he is a running QB. When they succeed people switch up and give them credit for their ability to pass efficiently.

And unlike YOU he is not insisting he disagrees with "me".

Wilson was among the leagues best PASSERS from day one. He did not need the SB victory to not be viewed as a "run 1st" QB by me.
In this thread I gave several examples of QBs who HAVE NOT won SBs that I do not see as "run first" QBs.
You bring up Cam and McNair.....both of whom I dont see that way. "I" brought up mature Cunningham as well as NOT a run first QB.

I was not critical of Lamar when he was drafted as he was a prolific passer in college.
"Thus far" he has been a "run first" guy which makes me happy.

I am not critical of his ability to run at all. I am critical of his passing.

My opinion of him may change.....he doesnt need to win a SB to do it. It would change if his passing improves.

The "pass first" kid we saw last year in Baltimore who won the division......THAT kind of QB does not win championships.
The "mobile" kid in Cleveland with the lesser record......scary.

"If" Lamar Jackson had a 100 QB rating like Russell Wilson DID AS A ROOKIE, I'd be scared out of my mind regardless his teams record.

[Captain Lemming]

Kyler Murray......major rushing yardage....no criticism- Why?

Because of this:

Percentage- 69.0
TDs- 42
Ints- 7
Passer rating- 199

Prior to 2018 NO PLAYER IN HISTORY had a better passer rating than Murray.

Interestingly, he DID NOT run pre-draft, though its OBVIOUS he has major speed.
I think it sends a message.....he KNOWS success in the NFL is in his arm, not his legs.

My only negative is his height.

[Captain Lemming]

Everyone says Russel Wilson is an efficient passer but who wanted to draft him out of college? He lasted until the 4th round.

He lasted TO THE THIRD round because he is short (under 6 feet) Dizz.

2nd overall pick of that SAME Draft?
RG III.....Twice the rushing yards his last season in college.
Heck number one pick Andrew Luck has more rushing yards in 2010 than Wilson had in any season in college.

[Oh wow]

My point remains the same. If you can run well and pass you have a shot at a SB.

If you can’t pass your chances are slim and that goes for any QB.

[Captain Lemming]

Highest drafted QBs in the 2010 and 2011 draft
Cam Newton- 1st overall
Andrew Luck- 1st overall
RG III- 2nd overall

ALL had bigger rushing seasons than Wilson in college.

Wilson graduated college with the HIGHEST PASSER RATING IN HISTORY at the time and was overlooked because of his 338 yards rushing at Wisconsin?
Ridiculous.

[Captain Lemming]

My point remains the same. If you can run well and pass you have a shot at a SB.

If you can’t pass your chances are slim and that goes for any QB.

Why are you are arguing with "me" Dizz?
I told you from the start you dont disagree with what I am saying rather you are "projecting" onto me that "others" say about "running QBs".

"Run first" QBs, defined as players who's effectiveness "depends" on rushing, do not win championships.

Trying to put THE SECOND HIGHEST CAREER PASSER RATING QB IN NFL HISTORY in that category is RIDICULOUS.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

[Captain Lemming]

Look at what I said, not what "others" say.....AGAIN:

Close but not quite what I’m saying.

Simply stated- Great QBs are great because they are great PASSERS period.
The ability to run while nice, and can come in handy, is not relevant to the above question.

When using the expression “run-first” I mean a QB who’s “primary” elite skill is their running ability. Sure he can pass, but he is not above average by the NFL standard.

QBs that are outstanding runners but mediocre passers are “fools gold”, as they all tend to be able to win, but don’t tend to win championships.

Your reply:

This isn’t true at all.

Why?

Then Hawaiian asks:

using the Captain's definition of a run first QB, name the last one to have won a Super Bowl...

You used a guy who left college with the highest passer rating ever, and currently has the 2nd highest career passer rating in NFL history as evidence that my above statement is wrong. Did you even READ my definition of a run first QB?

Ridiculous.....

I tell you Dizz, you disagree with me to just to disagree.

[Captain Lemming]

My point remains the same. If you can run well and pass VERY WELL you CAN WIN a SB.

If you can’t pass WELL your chances are slim and that goes for any QB.

Fixed that for you,.

[Oh wow]

Why are you are arguing with "me" Dizz?
I told you from the start you dont disagree with what I am saying rather you are "projecting" onto me that "others" say about "running QBs".

"Run first" QBs, defined as players who's effectiveness "depends" on rushing, do not win championships.

Trying to put THE SECOND HIGHEST CAREER PASSER RATING QB IN NFL HISTORY in that category is RIDICULOUS.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...ing_career.htm

Russell Wilson’s whole game is built on the threat of running the football.

Yes, he is an extremely efficient passer BUT a large part of that is because he is mobile. He isn’t a great pocket passer.

My issue is folks love to bash running QB’s until they have success then they remove the label. Any QB who can’t pass won’t win a lot in the NFL. However, like Burghsteel said, a mobile QB who can run gives you a better chance of making the playoffs which gives you a better chance of winning a SB. You have to make it to the dance to have a chance.

[Oh wow]

Fixed that for you,.

No. Kap was a play away from winning a SB and he didn’t pass very well.

Too many variables involved to say it can’t happen.

[Oviedo]

Nobody is talking about before he was drafted. You are not arguing "my point".
I did not know who Russell Wilson was in college.
I never viewed him as "run first" because he had a 100 passer rating AS A ROOKIE Dizz, not because of the SB.



And unlike YOU he is not insisting he disagrees with "me".

Wilson was among the leagues best PASSERS from day one. He did not need the SB victory to not be viewed as a "run 1st" QB by me.
In this thread I gave several examples of QBs who HAVE NOT won SBs that I do not see as "run first" QBs.
You bring up Cam and McNair.....both of whom I dont see that way. "I" brought up mature Cunningham as well as NOT a run first QB.

I was not critical of Lamar when he was drafted as he was a prolific passer in college.
"Thus far" he has been a "run first" guy which makes me happy.

I am not critical of his ability to run at all. I am critical of his passing.

My opinion of him may change.....he doesnt need to win a SB to do it. It would change if his passing improves.

The "pass first" kid we saw last year in Baltimore who won the division......THAT kind of QB does not win championships.
The "mobile" kid in Cleveland with the lesser record......scary.

"If" Lamar Jackson had a 100 QB rating like Russell Wilson DID AS A ROOKIE, I'd be scared out of my mind regardless his teams record.

Lamar Jackson will miss 3-4 games this season...bet on it. Ravens will take a major step back.

They got drunk last year on the LJ "Kool Aid" and they will get an upset stomach this year when the league figures him out and he gets banged up. One inescapable fact...he is not an accurate passer.

[Steel Maniac]

I too have gone on record early on that Lamar jackson is one of the biggest missteps by the ravens in their short history. He can’t read defenses; and he is an inaccurate passer. Two things that generally don’t change. He runs because if his first read isn’t wide open, he runs. He’s Tim Tebow; Vince Young; RG3. He’ll be relegated to a backup with in the next 4 years. If not sooner.

[Oh wow]

Lamar Jackson will miss 3-4 games this season...bet on it. Ravens will take a major step back.

They got drunk last year on the LJ "Kool Aid" and they will get an upset stomach this year when the league figures him out and he gets banged up. One inescapable fact...he is not an accurate passer.

If he doesn’t protect himself he may miss a whole season.

We have to remember they were desperate last year and threw him in there and had success

This year I think the offense is going to be totally revamped. I’m definitely concerned since our biggest issue is stopping teams on 3rd down. Bush better be ready to spy LJ all game.

[Oh wow]

I too have gone on record early on that Lamar jackson is one of the biggest missteps by the ravens in their short history. He can’t read defenses; and he is an inaccurate passer. Two things that generally don’t change. He runs because if his first read isn’t wide open, he runs. He’s Tim Tebow; Vince Young; RG3. He’ll be relegated to a backup with in the next 4 years. If not sooner.

Biggest missteps? Lmao.

They just made the playoffs last year and he probably saved Hairballs job. The biggest misstep by the Ravens was giving Flacco a ton of money after his SB run.

I think anytime you can get a QB who gets you to the playoffs while on a rookie contract you made a good selection.

[Northern_Blitz]

Fixed that for you,.

Being a very good passer isn't absolutely necessary (Dilfer, B. Johnson). But if you're not a very good passer, you probably need an elite / bordering on generational D.

I think Jax could have won the SB with their D, but they narrowly missed beating the Pat's who are the best dynasty of all time (who usually have an elite QB and a very good D).

Again, I think the combination of QB and D the Pat's have skews any interpretation of recent SB winning stats.

Maybe E. Manning is another interesting case of a guy that might be less than a very good QB who has won the SB. Or maybe everyone will put him as a very good QB because he won 2 SBs (and so will almost certainly end up in the HOF).