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  • Oh wow
    Hall of Famer
    • Mar 2019
    • 2753

    Originally posted by Steel Maniac
    Agreed.

    Steve Young and Wilson CAN run; but most of the time they move (mobile) to extend the play to throw the ball.

    Look at Kapernick; he ran often because he couldn't read defenses. . Even running for 180 yards in a playoff game against the Packers.

    Tebow ran, RG3 ran..because they couldn't read defenses to pass. Jackson fits this mold. He'll flame out just like the 3 other guys I just mentioned. Thanks Ozzie. Lovely parting gift you game the Ravens on the way out. hahaha.
    Look at Kap? He was a few plays from a SB win.

    Not sure what your point is by using him as an example.

    Comment

    • hawaiiansteel
      Legend
      • May 2008
      • 35315

      Originally posted by Steel Maniac
      I too have gone on record early on that Lamar jackson is one of the biggest missteps by the ravens in their short history. He can’t read defenses; and he is an inaccurate passer. Two things that generally don’t change. He runs because if his first read isn’t wide open, he runs. He’s Tim Tebow; Vince Young; RG3. He’ll be relegated to a backup with in the next 4 years. If not sooner.
      Ravens' Jackson wants doubters to eat words

      Jamison Hensley
      ESPN Staff Writer

      OWINGS MILLS, Md. -- Coming off a strong training camp practice Friday, Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson had a message for the doubters.

      "It motivates me a lot," Jackson said. "Make them eat their words, that's all."

      Last year, as a rookie first-round pick, Jackson took over for the injured Joe Flacco around midseason and led Baltimore to its first AFC North title in six years, becoming the youngest quarterback (at 21) ever to start an NFL playoff game.

      But Jackson went 6-1 as a starter more on the strength of his legs than his arm. In his seven starts, he finished 30th in completion rate (58%) and 31st in off-target percentage (23%).

      Jackson believes he has made strides this offseason as a passer.

      "You guys saw me last year. I was horrible. A lot of ducks," Jackson said. "It's been better. A lot of tight spirals."

      On the first day of training camp Thursday, Jackson struggled early and fluttered some passes deep downfield, showing his frustration after some other off-target passes by shaking his head. He had a much more solid outing Friday, connecting on a higher rate of passes and hitting Nick Boyle 20 yards down the middle of the field for his best throw of the summer.

      Safety Earl Thomas said Jackson has been "throwing dimes" and noted that he hasn't gotten his hands on one of Jackson's passes yet. His biggest concern with Jackson doesn't involve his accuracy or throwing mechanics.

      "My thing with him is I don't want to get caught up in, 'You got to be a pocket passer, you got to be this,'" Thomas said. "No, Lamar, you be who you are. Be special. If you have to take off, take off. Make the defense work."

      Jackson has always been in the spotlight. He became the youngest player to win the Heisman Trophy and is the only player in FBS history to rush for at least 1,500 yards and pass for at least 3,500 yards in consecutive seasons.

      Coach John Harbaugh is amazed by Jackson's demeanor and personality for a young player facing so much pressure.

      "I look back at being 22 years old, and I could have only hoped to have Lamar Jackson's poise and balance," Harbaugh said. "He is who he is. He doesn't get flustered. He doesn't get fazed. It's never too big for him. I'm kind of blown away by that part of him."

      Besides the improvements in his passing, Jackson has made strides in the execution of the offense. Last year, he needed coaches to repeat the playcall, and the play clock often would run out. This year, the offense is moving at a crisper pace with Jackson.

      There's also a noticeable difference in how Jackson looks. He added 7 to 10 pounds "of muscle, not fat" to help him withstand more hits.

      "Trying to compete at a high level, put some more meat on my bones. I was hurt. I was skinny," Jackson said. "Those guys are big out there. The league is totally different. Grown men trying to feed their families, 300-pounders coming at you, running 4.5."

      Quarterbacks coach James Urban sees a chip on Jackson's shoulder, but he believes most great players carry that.

      "I think as much as anything, he wants to prove [Ravens owner] Mr. [Steve] Bisciotti, Ozzie [Newsome, former GM], Eric [DeCosta, current GM), Coach Harbs and the Baltimore Ravens right rather than prove everyone else wrong," Urban said.

      Ravens second-year quarterback Lamar Jackson is highly motivated to make all his doubters "eat their words."

      Comment

      • hawaiiansteel
        Legend
        • May 2008
        • 35315

        Blitzburgh
        @Steel_Curtain4

        NFL has drug tested LeV Bell twice in two days of camp. 😂 #NFL

        27 Jul 2019

        Comment

        • Steel Maniac
          Banned
          • Apr 2017
          • 19472

          Jackson has so many doubters because their are a lot of us who know the history of inaccurate qbs that also can’t read defenses that also have a second nature to just run when things break down. Lol

          Comment

          • Mr.wizard
            Legend
            • May 2014
            • 6617

            Originally posted by Steel Maniac
            Jackson has so many doubters because their are a lot of us who know the history of inaccurate qbs that also can’t read defenses that also have a second nature to just run when things break down. Lol
            What makes you so sure Jackson "can't read defenses"?? He was a rookie last year so there is a learning curve but if the Ravens were willing to part with Flacco after giving him that contract I doubt their assessment of Jackson is that he is inaccurate and can't read a defense.

            Comment

            • Oh wow
              Hall of Famer
              • Mar 2019
              • 2753

              Originally posted by Mr.wizard
              What makes you so sure Jackson "can't read defenses"?? He was a rookie last year so there is a learning curve but if the Ravens were willing to part with Flacco after giving him that contract I doubt their assessment of Jackson is that he is inaccurate and can't read a defense.
              Once a prediction is made he doubles down on it

              Comment

              • Steel Maniac
                Banned
                • Apr 2017
                • 19472

                Originally posted by Mr.wizard
                What makes you so sure Jackson "can't read defenses"?? He was a rookie last year so there is a learning curve but if the Ravens were willing to part with Flacco after giving him that contract I doubt their assessment of Jackson is that he is inaccurate and can't read a defense.
                Please read Jackson synopsis report coming out of college. He and josh Allen were the two most inaccurate qbs coming out. And you and I have seen team after team become enamored with running qbs. You don’t just start to understand defenses in the pros if your a qb. Ask Tebow, Vince young, RG3 about that.

                Comment

                • Captain Lemming
                  Legend
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 15979

                  Originally posted by hawaiiansteel
                  Safety Earl Thomas said Jackson has been "throwing dimes" and noted that he hasn't gotten his hands on one of Jackson's passes yet.
                  A great coverage safety, Thomas is simply TOO CLOSE TO THE RECEIVER to actually get his hands on one of Jacksons passes.
                  Last edited by Captain Lemming; 07-28-2019, 10:32 PM.
                  sigpic



                  In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                  TCFCLTC-
                  The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

                  Comment

                  • Mr.wizard
                    Legend
                    • May 2014
                    • 6617

                    Originally posted by Steel Maniac
                    Please read Jackson synopsis report coming out of college. He and josh Allen were the two most inaccurate qbs coming out. And you and I have seen team after team become enamored with running qbs. You don’t just start to understand defenses in the pros if your a qb. Ask Tebow, Vince young, RG3 about that.
                    There is nothing in Jackson's draft profile about not being able to read defenses. Also your only naming naming QB's who have failed, how about Watson, Vick, Newton, Wilson, Cunnigham, Mariota, Allen, S. Young, Kapernick, and Wentz. Also RG3 didn't fail because he couldn't read defenses he failed because he kept getting hurt, which is the real knock on athletic QB's.

                    Comment

                    • Steel Maniac
                      Banned
                      • Apr 2017
                      • 19472

                      Originally posted by Mr.wizard
                      There is nothing in Jackson's draft profile about not being able to read defenses. Also your only naming naming QB's who have failed, how about Watson, Vick, Newton, Wilson, Cunnigham, Mariota, Allen, S. Young, Kapernick, and Wentz. Also RG3 didn't fail because he couldn't read defenses he failed because he kept getting hurt, which is the real knock on athletic QB's.
                      Let me address these one at a time:

                      1. RG3 failed because he was ultimately exposed to not being able to read defenses. Shanihan said that he had to to tell RG3 to only look at half the field because Griffin couldn't read the entire defense. He got away with that his rookie season , but like all things in the NFL, if your doing gimmick stuff you get exposed ultimately. It was not just an injury; RG3 mental prowess is still the same right now in baltimore. That's why another QB was drafted in the first round while he was on that roster.

                      2. I said look at his draft profile about his accuracy. If you watched him during the year as I did, you could see he could not read coverages down the field and he (like all qb's that can't read down the field) dumped off to TE's and RB as much as possible because of his inability to read defenses. I watched him all year. And he is exactly who I saw in college.

                      3. The QB's I named previous all had the same M.O. as Jackson and all had the same results. The QB's you named do not share the same similarities as Jackson except for Kapernick and Vick. Two QB's who had the same similarities and both were nothing but backup QB's in reality when the dust settled. Again..you don't draft QB's in the first round to ultimately be backup QB's.

                      4. The knock on running QB's is not just about them getting hurt; the other knock is that because of their second nature of to run after the first option is covered is something that they've done their entire life and most can't be coached out of that. In the back of their minds, they have it programmed that my legs can get me out of trouble and solve all my on the field problems.

                      there is a difference between mobile QB's and running QB's. Steve Young and Russell Wilson are mobile QB's (IMO) which are QB's that can run but really they move to extend the play TO pass the ball most of the time.
                      Last edited by Steel Maniac; 07-28-2019, 11:31 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Oh wow
                        Hall of Famer
                        • Mar 2019
                        • 2753

                        Originally posted by Mr.wizard
                        There is nothing in Jackson's draft profile about not being able to read defenses. Also your only naming naming QB's who have failed, how about Watson, Vick, Newton, Wilson, Cunnigham, Mariota, Allen, S. Young, Kapernick, and Wentz. Also RG3 didn't fail because he couldn't read defenses he failed because he kept getting hurt, which is the real knock on athletic QB's.
                        IMO he failed because he tried to be something he wasn’t.

                        He was deadly running the RPO so what does he do? He goes to Snyder and demands a pro style offense.

                        Imagine Russell Wilson demanding they don’t run a RPO and taking away half of his game?

                        ..and yes, he also didn’t slide.

                        Comment

                        • The Man of Steel
                          Pro Bowler
                          • Dec 2009
                          • 2204

                          Until Lamar Jackson is able to complete at least 60% of his passes it’s gonna be really hard to take him seriously as a dual-threat QB. He couldn’t even complete 60% in college so there’s no reason to think he can do it on the NFL level.
                          Obviously the standard is the standard.

                          Comment

                          • Mr.wizard
                            Legend
                            • May 2014
                            • 6617

                            Originally posted by The Man of Steel
                            Until Lamar Jackson is able to complete at least 60% of his passes it’s gonna be really hard to take him seriously as a dual-threat QB. He couldn’t even complete 60% in college so there’s no reason to think he can do it on the NFL level.
                            Well as a rookie he completed 58.2% of his passes so if 60% is the mark than I dont think it's a stretch to improve 1.8%

                            Comment

                            • SteelerOfDeVille
                              Legend
                              • May 2008
                              • 9065

                              Originally posted by Mr.wizard
                              What makes you so sure Jackson "can't read defenses"?? He was a rookie last year so there is a learning curve but if the Ravens were willing to part with Flacco after giving him that contract I doubt their assessment of Jackson is that he is inaccurate and can't read a defense.
                              he can't...
                              -- Louisville alum who watched every college game of his...

                              </discussion>
                              2013 MNF Executive Champion!

                              Comment

                              • Steel Maniac
                                Banned
                                • Apr 2017
                                • 19472

                                Originally posted by The Man of Steel
                                Until Lamar Jackson is able to complete at least 60% of his passes it’s gonna be really hard to take him seriously as a dual-threat QB. He couldn’t even complete 60% in college so there’s no reason to think he can do it on the NFL level.
                                Boom.......

                                Comment

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