Chadman's 2013 Off-Season Analysis Thread...

[supersteeler]

Here is what I think we should do...

Say goodybe to the following players....

1) Foote
2) Hampton
3) Mendenhall
4) Wallace
5) David Johnson
6) Colon

Restructure Ben's contract, Woodley's and Timmons.

Try to get Harrison to sign a Hampton-like paycut and play 1 more year. He is still one of our best defensive players when healthy but he probably has 1 really good year left in him.

Do what you can to keep Clark and Polamalu for at least 1 more year. Clark probably has a year left. I don't see Polamalu "hanging on" to long when he recognizes his career is about over. I think he and the Steelers know that his playing days are winding down but not over. He will be 32 by the start of next season.

Try to get Ike to take a paycut.

If Harrison won't take a paycut... you cut him.

If Ike won't take a paycut... you cut him.

I would make every effort to sign Foster and Starks to a cap friendly deal. People think Max is old because he's been on this team forever. He JUST turned 31 and he was one of our most consistent offensive player (not just o-lineman). Who knows what Foster is asking for. Legursky is a very valuable backup especially at center... especially with Pouncey's ankle issues.

The Steelers can NOT sacrifice the future of this team by hanging onto players that have 1 or MAYBE 2 years left. That means, you cut Ike if it means signing Lewis.

Sounds logical to me, I hope Harrison will stick around 1 more year. He came on at the end and should be in great shape for the 2013 season.
The issue is will he take a pay cut?
I figure 3 mill is better than no mill!

[RuthlessBurgher]

I would disagree, Ike is exactly the type of player the Steelers part with...aging...best playing days behind him. I have never known the Steelers to let a young very talented player walk to sign a guy who is 33 years old. Now the Steelers have been known to re-sign a guy like Ike to a lower old guy cap friendly retire in the Burgh contract.

Yup yup. If we pay Lewis and a Allen, sure, there is a chance that they regress and aren't worth what we are paying them a couple of years from now (but from what I've seen so far, it's a reasonable risk to assume that both are ascending talents in this league). Ike on the other hand, is 100% guaranteed to regress and not be worth what we are paying him a couple of years from now. Ike's been remarkably reliable for us over the years, but it's not a great time for him to suffer a hairline leg fracture when he is a soon-to-be-33 year old playing a position that requires top speed.

[Chadman]

Too many replies to single out anything individual!!

Here's a question- after cutting a number of Vet leaders last season, and then watching some undisciplined, sloppy play from the youngsters translate into an 8-8 season- can the Steelers really afford to cut Vet's like Harrison & Taylor without suffering another hit in leadership?

[Chadman]

Colon needs to be cut even if it saves just 1.5. Enough is enough already with that guy. Cut your loses and move on. If nothing else, it opens up a roster spot for a future player such as a draft pick and/or UDFA..

Can understand that statement- but cutting Colon requires signing someone to replace him, relying on a draft pick, or relying on Kelvin Beachum. Signing Ramon Foster is the obvious answer- but will cutting Colon save enough against the cap to sign Foster?

[Chadman]

A little caveat to the whole pondering of Steeler woes-

Brett Keisel, when asked about James Harrison, said he thinks James will be back but something needs to be done about the contract. That's different from last season when guys were saying they 'hope' Farrior comes back.

Starting to lean towards Harrison will be returning, at a lower rate. What does that mean for Taylor?

[Chadman]

Even though I might not agree with it... I could see the Steelers signing Foster for relatively cheap compared to Starks. The primary reason is the position... Foster has been backup that has played decent because of injuries. Starks on the other hand is a starter in this league and he plays the most expensive position on the o-line: LT

For financial reasons, they might sign Foster to a cap-friendly deal and let Starks walk. They invested high picks in both Gilbert and Adams. The Steelers obviously planned them to be starters and that could spell the end for Starks in Pittsburgh. Depth is a whole seperate issue. You don't draft a 2nd rounder (i.e. Gilberts/Adams) for depth. You also don't keep Starks for depth (to expensive and he's starter material).

All that, right there, is the most likely thing to happen if the Steelers want to bring back an OL guy from last year. There isn't a 'progression plan' in place at LG, but the Steelers have planned for both OT positions. Foster is easily the more likely signing, and quite doable if cutting Colon is on the schedule.

The Steelers will want at the least, a Vet back-up at OT. Chadman suggested the Falcons (and former Chief) Will Svitek earlier. Any other options?

[supersteeler]

Too many replies to single out anything individual!!

Here's a question- after cutting a number of Vet leaders last season, and then watching some undisciplined, sloppy play from the youngsters translate into an 8-8 season- can the Steelers really afford to cut Vet's like Harrison & Taylor without suffering another hit in leadership?

Yeah, when a team transitions its players and you get the young guys in there, mistakes and pain go into the process.
Personally I would keep JH if he's willing to take a pay cut with his contract, draft a OLB and let him compete and learn the system to groom him to replace Harrison.
Worlids is harrison's replacement for now but he needs competition before they just hand him the job, a rookie would have to be really good to just step in and needs time to develope.

As for Lewis, he's going to demand a big pay increase and if we sign him it might work out but I don't know if the Steelers are willing to go that route on 3/4 of a season of good play. If we get the chance to draft a top CB he can learn behind Ike and we'll save money that was going to go to Lewis.
When we signed Antonio Brown he had the credentials for a good contract over a period of time, what has Lewis done early in the year and the years he's been with us? Yeah, he has some upside but if they error on his contract it could come back to haunt us especially letting Ike go.
You would have Cortez Allen and Lewis starting, I would rather have the safety net with Ike and sign a top CB, before I shell out tons of cash to Lewis.

[Chadman]

I'm really hoping they draft a 1st or 2nd round ILB with intentions of him starting from day 1 to replace Foote. It's obvious replacing Foote was the Steelers plan last year when they all but said Hightower was going to be the pick but they couldn't pass on DD.

Conversley, this is the least likely scenario. The Steelers won't go into the draft thinking they need to draft a guy to start. Someone will be lined up to be a starter at ILB before the draft- be it Foote, Brandon Johnson or one of the young guys in Sylvester or Spence.

Chadman suspects that Spence is the guy the Steelers have identified for the future. But Chadman doubts the future is now. Foote will be back.

[Chadman]

"When we signed Antonio Brown he had the credentials for a good contract over a period of time, what has Lewis done early in the year and the years he's been with us?"


Don't get me started on Brown's contract.... couldn't disagree more on that one!

[Shawn]

Too many replies to single out anything individual!!

Here's a question- after cutting a number of Vet leaders last season, and then watching some undisciplined, sloppy play from the youngsters translate into an 8-8 season- can the Steelers really afford to cut Vet's like Harrison & Taylor without suffering another hit in leadership?

While I won't disagree that at times the Steelers have played sloppy...I would say that the sloppy trend started well before the cut of vets...and I would argue the 8-8 record was more to do with injuries than anything else. I have a hard time keeping often hurt, aging vets if it means letting the future of the team leave via free agency. Doing so only mortgages the future. It's time the young up and comers find their voice...there are guys on this roster who can lead...and will lead when given the chance.

[Chadman]

While I won't disagree that at times the Steelers have played sloppy...I would say that the sloppy trend started well before the cut of vets...and I would argue the 8-8 record was more to do with injuries than anything else. I have a hard time keeping often hurt, aging vets if it means letting the future of the team leave via free agency. Doing so only mortgages the future. It's time the young up and comers find their voice...there are guys on this roster who can lead...and will lead when given the chance.

Not disagreeing with you Shawn... but what will the Steelers do? Do they agree?

One thing the Steelers are very good at is progressing players into starting roles as older players are fazed out. While the argument can be made for Taylor/Lewis/Allen that the progression plan is in place, can it be said for Colon, Starks, Harrison, Hampton, Clark or Troy?

And while the Steelers are focussed on retaining 1 up & coming player in Lewis, they'll lose Mendenhall & Wallace- both have more success over the length of their careers, both are starters- and both are gone.

Normally, these are the sort of players the Steelers would lock up, long term. Young, productive players drafted in the 1st & 3rd rounds respectively.

This is very un-Steelerlike.... and might be 'sloppy' work from the FO. Is the result on the field- the sloppiness, the bad results... does it stem from higher up the tree?

[supersteeler]

"When we signed Antonio Brown he had the credentials for a good contract over a period of time, what has Lewis done early in the year and the years he's been with us?"


Don't get me started on Brown's contract.... couldn't disagree more on that one!

Well, we can disagree then.

Mike Wallace had an opportunity to be a rich man but he held out, eventually signing for what 2.7 mill. He could of got a fair deal just by showing up at camp, the Steelers really wanted to sign him but he wanted more than they were willing to pay.
They took the next step in signing Brown, who did have the credentials.

1. Broke the franchise record fpr all pupose yards @ 2211


2. Named team MVP in only his second year, the last time a player was named MVP of the Steelers in his second year was Rod Woodson over 20 years ago.


3. He was a clutch receiver, and his value as a return specialist.

This year his play went down I get that, but besides Heath Miller, they all underachieved.

I believe Brown will return in 2013 and get back to form and be the best reciever on the roster.


Now, if your saying they could of waited to sign Brown to a longer contact after this season I get that, but what if Brown would of duplicated his 2011 stats then they are looking at two huge contracts with Wallace and Brown. They gave him a big contact but if they didn't sign him this year they would of paid even more by waiting.

I liked Mike Wallace, but IMHO he made a bad mistake. Oh, he'll get a nice contract with another team but will it be anymore than what he could of got here?

Brown is the man now, and I feel this season was a learning experience for him, he realizes the drops and mistakes he made so I look for him to rebound in a big way.

[Chadman]

[QUOTE=supersteeler;547421]Well, we can disagree then.

Mike Wallace had an opportunity to be a rich man but he held out, eventually signing for what 2.7 mill. He could of got a fair deal just by showing up at camp, the Steelers really wanted to sign him but he wanted more than they were willing to pay.
They took the next step in signing Brown, who did have the credentials.

1. Broke the franchise record fpr all pupose yards @ 2211


2. Named team MVP in only his second year, the last time a player was named MVP of the Steelers in his second year was Rod Woodson over 20 years ago.


3. He was a clutch receiver, and his value as a return specialist.

QUOTE]

All that is fine, but the argument was this:


"When we signed Antonio Brown he had the credentials for a good contract over a period of time, what has Lewis done early in the year and the years he's been with us?"

That period of time, was 1 season starting.

Which is what Keenan Lewis has behind him.

"As for Lewis, he's going to demand a big pay increase and if we sign him it might work out but I don't know if the Steelers are willing to go that route on 3/4 of a season of good play"

Tell Chadman how the 2 differ. If Brown got paid (EARLY!! Only a RFA in 2013, not UFA), then Lewis needs to get paid too.

[Shawn]

Not disagreeing with you Shawn... but what will the Steelers do? Do they agree?

One thing the Steelers are very good at is progressing players into starting roles as older players are fazed out. While the argument can be made for Taylor/Lewis/Allen that the progression plan is in place, can it be said for Colon, Starks, Harrison, Hampton, Clark or Troy?

And while the Steelers are focussed on retaining 1 up & coming player in Lewis, they'll lose Mendenhall & Wallace- both have more success over the length of their careers, both are starters- and both are gone.

Normally, these are the sort of players the Steelers would lock up, long term. Young, productive players drafted in the 1st & 3rd rounds respectively.

This is very un-Steelerlike.... and might be 'sloppy' work from the FO. Is the result on the field- the sloppiness, the bad results... does it stem from higher up the tree?

I think it's very Steeler like. The Steelers have shown the willingness to let a young talent go, if they do numb skull things...or are me first players...ie Holmes. By the way the Steelers reacted to Brown vs Wallace...I must believe there were attitudes and things said behind the scenes that prompted that action. I believe it was more than money. It's hard for me to believe an organization run as well as the Steelers acted emotionally with Browns contract. Mendenhall has said, and tweeted things that have embarrassed the team, not to mention had a poor attitude recently.

The Steelers always keep hard working, young talent with a good attitude...always.

[Chadman]

I think it's very Steeler like. The Steelers have shown the willingness to let a young talent go, if they do numb skull things...or are me first players...ie Holmes. By the way the Steelers reacted to Brown vs Wallace...I must believe there were attitudes and things said behind the scenes that prompted that action. I believe it was more than money. It's hard for me to believe an organization run as well as the Steelers acted emotionally with Browns contract. Mendenhall has said, and tweeted things that have embarrassed the team, not to mention had a poor attitude recently.

The Steelers always keep hard working, young talent with a good attitude...always.

You may be right. Not wanting this thread to disolve into another Wallace/Brown slugfest, so we'll agree to disagree about the reaction to Wallace's rejection of the Steelers offer & the subsequent signing of Antonio Brown. It's done now, anyway- and the Steelers need to get the ship sorted regardless of what happened there.

Given your stance, and opinion, there's no way Lewis moves on then?