Paul Zeise: Steelers' standard under Mike Tomlin has been lowered

[Chucktownsteeler]

judging by the amount of times he references them, Steel Maniac likes to think about male genitalia often.

and yeah, he gets caught lying a lot.

I said that before in the Pickett thread. I was just glad they were measuring his hands, a few of these guys are fixated on Tomlin's genitalia.

[NorthCoast]

For the record….

I never EVER called for Cowher to be fired. Because I always k ew that Cowher was doing the best he could with garbage at QB. Those teams were awesome in the 90’s but us not having a legit QB always bit us in the butt in the end.

Tomlin had a franchise qb his entire coaching career.

Which begs the question why was Cowher drafting the likes of Tee Martin instead of Brees?

[BURGH86STEEL]

I think this is probably true because we have shown great patience with HCs.

I think Cowher would have been fired before winning a SB if he coached basically anywhere else.

And I bet that other teams would have moved on from Noll earlier than we did.

I wasn't following the team at the end of the Noll era (maybe the last year or so). But I certainly saw lots of people on message boards calling for Cowher's job for many, many years before he finally won a SB. Just like we see lots and lots of people calling for Tomlin's job.

It's easy that some fans move the goal post in relation to Tomlin. At the end of the day coaches can't win without players executing on the plan. Tomlin knows the game regardless of how fans feel about him.

I am not a coach by profession. I am sure I could come up with a game plan vs another team if I watched enough film and had a basic understanding of the factors that won or loss games. Coaches and players "preached" factors that win or loss games all the time. This is how I learned. I watched and listened from the outside.

The only kicker in my lack of coaching experience would be intuition or "3rd eye vision" of what the other team might do in a given circumstance. Sometimes coaches "guess right" and sometimes they make the wrong decision based on their experiences of watching and studying the game(coaches, players, ect). This process is based on experience and can happen in almost any profession in the world today. I don't think any profession has 100% efficacy.

I don't know how much say Tomlin has in personnel decisions. I believe he has some say. I know is that Tomlin helped to put this team in a position to succeed more often than not regardless of the team's circumstances.

In the playoff game vs the Chiefs, Tomlin and the rest of the coaches couldn't overcome the overall deficiencies of the offensive players.

Anyway that's my spiel.

[Northern_Blitz]

For the record….

I never EVER called for Cowher to be fired. Because I always k ew that Cowher was doing the best he could with garbage at QB. Those teams were awesome in the 90’s but us not having a legit QB always bit us in the butt in the end.

Tomlin had a franchise qb his entire coaching career.

Did you post on the Trib? That was where I was in the Cowher years.

There were a TON of people making very similar arguments to the ones we see against Tomlin for Cowher to get fired....except I guess the Rooney Rule one. But probably "he's just a glorified ST coach" or "Marty Ball is great for doing well in the regular season, but it doesn't work in the playoffs". "Three yards and a cloud of dust" was a great one describing our offense. Can't draft when we picked guys like "Chared Scott". We never got the "Noll's players", but lots of the great pieces from Cowher teams were drafted under Noll (Woodson, Lloyd, Lake, etc).

Guys like Lemming were arguing against these people at the time IIRC (I think I was more lurking than posting).

While Cowher never had the QB, his teams had higher seeds going in to the playoffs than Tomlin's did...which led to many defeats at home in the AFCC.

Many took that as evidence that "Cowher could never win a SB". Many predicted that it was impossible that we would ever win a SB with Cowher. And I'm sure they thought that was true that year where we entered the tournament at the 6th seed.

[Steel Maniac]

Did you post on the Trib? That was where I was in the Cowher years.

There were a TON of people making very similar arguments to the ones we see against Tomlin for Cowher to get fired....except I guess the Rooney Rule one. But probably "he's just a glorified ST coach" or "Marty Ball is great for doing well in the regular season, but it doesn't work in the playoffs". "Three yards and a cloud of dust" was a great one describing our offense. Can't draft when we picked guys like "Chared Scott". We never got the "Noll's players", but lots of the great pieces from Cowher teams were drafted under Noll (Woodson, Lloyd, Lake, etc).

Guys like Lemming were arguing against these people at the time IIRC (I think I was more lurking than posting).

While Cowher never had the QB, his teams had higher seeds going in to the playoffs than Tomlin's did...which led to many defeats at home in the AFCC.

Many took that as evidence that "Cowher could never win a SB". Many predicted that it was impossible that we would ever win a SB with Cowher. And I'm sure they thought that was true that year where we entered the tournament at the 6th seed.

No… I wasn’t on the tribe at that time. But I believe what your saying.

*** I used to say that the only difference between Shotenheimer and Cowher was that Cowher was given a lot longer lease.

[BURGH86STEEL]

For the record….

I never EVER called for Cowher to be fired. Because I always k ew that Cowher was doing the best he could with garbage at QB. Those teams were awesome in the 90’s but us not having a legit QB always bit us in the butt in the end.

Tomlin had a franchise qb his entire coaching career.

People wanted Cowher fired. Especially, "The Legion of Doom".

I don't need to go through some of the issues (Cowher cushion, owned by BB, ect) of the Cowher era that people expressed on forums. Simply put, some fans wanted him fired and never believed he would help the organization win a championship. Last laugh on Cowher SB winning coach and HOFer. Now he is looked upon as a good/great coach. The same will happen with Tomlin.

[whatever]

Which begs the question why was Cowher drafting the likes of Tee Martin instead of Brees?

Besides Brees, what other franchise qbs did he pass over?

[whatever]

People wanted Cowher fired. Especially, "The Legion of Doom".

I don't need to go through some of the issues (Cowher cushion, owned by BB, ect) of the Cowher era that people expressed on forums. Simply put, some fans wanted him fired and never believed he would help the organization win a championship. Last laugh on Cowher SB winning coach and HOFer. Now he is looked upon as a good/great coach. The same will happen with Tomlin.

Except Tomlin will be known as the HC that only could win with cowhers players and coaches.
Deep down, Tomlin knows this also.

[NJ-STEELER]

Stephen Smith playing the race card for ‘clicks’.
Shocking….

the louder he talks, the more right he is...in his own mind

like white coaches never got fired for a lack of post season success

[BURGH86STEEL]

Except Tomlin will be known as the HC that only could win with cowhers players and coaches.
Deep down, Tomlin knows this also.

This is dumb, dumb and agenda driven thinking.

Tomlin helped the team win games well after Cowher was gone. Tomlin helped this team have many opportunities to compete for the Superbowl many years after Cowher was gone.

Tomlin and the Steelers failed more often than not if championships is the ONLY measure of a successful franchise. Now if championships is your only measure of a successful franchise then most failed the large majority of the time in the Tomlin era. Do you see how difficult it is to win a championship?

As a fan, you should simply be thankful for the winning seasons and opportunities this organization had and strived to compete championships under the ownership and HC.

I can't fix stupid and I can't fix people who don't realize the reality of how difficult it is to win championships. So yeah I will take the competitive seasons and playoff exits until the Steelers can manage to build another championship team.

[feltdizz]

This is dumb, dumb and agenda driven thinking.

Tomlin helped the team win games well after Cowher was gone. Tomlin helped this team have many opportunities to compete for the Superbowl many years after Cowher was gone.

Tomlin and the Steelers failed more often than not if championships is the ONLY measure of a successful franchise. Now if championships is your only measure of a successful franchise then most failed the large majority of the time in the Tomlin era. Do you see how difficult it is to win a championship?

As a fan, you should simply be thankful for the winning seasons and opportunities this organization had and strived to compete championships under the ownership and HC.

I can't fix stupid and I can't fix people who don't realize the reality of how difficult it is to win championships. So yeah I will take the competitive seasons and playoff exits until the Steelers can manage to build another championship team.

of course its dumb but consider the source.

When Tomlin gets in the HOF there will be a few idiots screaming Cowhers players regardless of how his career ends.

They simply refuse to give Tomlin credit for obvious reasons.

[BURGH86STEEL]

of course its dumb but consider the source.

When Tomlin gets in the HOF there will be a few idiots screaming Cowhers players regardless of how his career ends.

They simply refuse to give Tomlin credit for obvious reasons.

It's unfortunate that many of the "trolls", "idiots", or "agenda driven fans" don't realize what they have in a quality and consistent winner as the Steelers. That being said, the Steelers will never be perfect. The Steelers are not above certain criticisms. Some of the stuff that media wrote and some fans believe is either stupid, agenda driven, or simply ignorance.

[whisper]

Besides Brees, what other franchise qbs did he pass over?

- Mark Brunell
- Jake Plummer
- Charlie Batch
- Tom Brady

That's about it, shockingly.

[T.Ferguson]

Which begs the question why was Cowher drafting the likes of Tee Martin instead of Brees?

Because he wasn't an offensive guy and had no clue about QB play. He didn't want to draft Ben either. Cowher's two big weaknesses were QB play and conservative/predictable gameday coaching.

[Steel Maniac]

It's unfortunate that many of the "ball washers", "idiots", or "agenda driven fans" don't realize how much of the real “ standard” has been watered down by the current Steelers. That being said, the Steelers will never be perfect. The Steelers are not above certain criticisms. Some of the stuff that media wrote and some ball washing fans believe is either stupid, agenda driven, or simply ignorance.