Tomlin

[NJ-STEELER]

Maybe Tomlin signed up for 3 more years because he believes Ben will be here for 3 more years.

i wouldn't bet against that.

[Northern_Blitz]

Rooney Jr isn't as committed to winning championships like his Dad. He's happy with Tomlin and 8-10 win seasons. That's enough for him as long as gear is being bought and tickets are being sold.

IIRC this the exact opposite thing people said shortly after he was hired. He became team president in 2003, then we won SBs in 2006 and 2009. With another appearance in 2011.

He was the no nonsense corporate lawyer who cared about winning because it maximized profits. He wasn't softhearted like his Dad, who hadn't won anything since Art I passed away. Not that we had someone that cared about winning in the President's chair, we were going to usher in a new golden age of Steelers football.

Or some BS narrative like that.

The problem is that both of these narratives are crappy because they are built by only looking at the result and ignoring the process.

The process the Steelers use to run the team has been pretty consistent since the 90s. It's given us consistently competitive teams for ~ 30 years. They have tried to be consistently competitive to navigate their way through a single game elimination tournament where chance plays a big role (bounces, injuries, etc) by entering into the tournament as many times as possible. This is the equivalent to buying lots of lottery tickets because it gives you better odds. It's a good strategy. And I think it's why we're among the winningest teams in the league.

I think that's maybe the big difference between the two Tomlin camps?

People that think that the best way to get good results is to have good processes think that replacing one of the winningest coaches in NFL history is almost certain to make the team worse (to the extent that coaching impacts wins and losses).

People that think the result is the only thing that matters (or at least that results >>>> than process) think that Tomlin should be replaced because he "only" won 1 SB (with another SB appearance) and that was a "long time ago".

[Steel Maniac]

IIRC this the exact opposite thing people said shortly after he was hired. He became team president in 2003, then we won SBs in 2006 and 2009. With another appearance in 2011.

He was the no nonsense corporate lawyer who cared about winning because it maximized profits. He wasn't softhearted like his Dad, who hadn't won anything since Art I passed away. Not that we had someone that cared about winning in the President's chair, we were going to usher in a new golden age of Steelers football.

Or some BS narrative like that.

The problem is that both of these narratives are crappy because they are built by only looking at the result and ignoring the process.

The process the Steelers use to run the team has been pretty consistent since the 90s. It's given us consistently competitive teams for ~ 30 years. They have tried to be consistently competitive to navigate their way through a single game elimination tournament where chance (bounces, injuries, etc) by entering into the tournament as many times as possible. This is the equivalent to buying lots of lottery tickets because it gives you better odds. It's a good strategy. And I think it's why we're among the winningest teams in the league.

I think that's maybe the big difference between the two Tomlin camps?

People that think that the best way to get good results is to have good processes think that replacing one of the winningest coaches in NFL history is almost certain to make the team worse (to the extent that coaching impacts wins and losses).

People that think the result is the only thing that matters (or at least that results >>>> than process) think that Tomlin should be replaced because he "only" won 1 SB (with another SB appearance) and that was a "long time ago".

NB, I question if "the process" now works in football today. But....if the process STILL is valid then we don't have the type of coach to take it further after the regular season ends.

Two different points to debate thou; the process and the right coach to execute it after the regular season.

[feltdizz]

i'd bet most of the locker room is happy ben is back for another year. especially if they were asked about it by local media and went "on record" like they did here with tomlin's extension

so with your logic above, that was clearly the right move by the steelers Front office. correct?

100% correct on this one. Personally, I’m ready to move on but wasn’t surprised one bit they resigned Ben.

We will see if Ben still had it but age and injury are the concern with Ben.

Hopefully he still has it.

[flippy]

I heard Rooney say something along the lines of ‘we believe in Tomlin’s leadership and have confidence in him leading us toward winning another SuperBowl.’

I’m sure I missed some nuance in the message but I think the plan is to win a SuperBowl just like we did with Cowher after everyone gave up on Bill too.

One other thought as I read thru the comments. When some say Tomlin won with Cowher’s players, you do recall Cowher didn’t want Ben, right?

[Northern_Blitz]

NB, I question if "the process" now works in football today. But....if the process STILL is valid then we don't have the type of coach to take it further after the regular season ends.

Two different points to debate thou; the process and the right coach to execute it after the regular season.

I think that Tomlin's results over large sample sizes demonstrate that he has a good process.

You seem to only focus on SB wins. So no matter who you hire, you are going to be disappointed in them them in short order.

[Northern_Blitz]

i'd bet most of the locker room is happy ben is back for another year. especially if they were asked about it by local media and went "on record" like they did here with tomlin's extension

so with your logic above, that was clearly the right move by the steelers Front office. correct?

This.

On record comments by players don't mean much IMO.

They are trained to be PC.

Could be they believe it. Could be they just know it's stupid to cause a huge distraction (probably true outside of "skill position" guys anyway).

[Northern_Blitz]

I heard Rooney say something along the lines of ‘we believe in Tomlin’s leadership and have confidence in him leading us toward winning another SuperBowl.’

I’m sure I missed some nuance in the message but I think the plan is to win a SuperBowl just like we did with Cowher after everyone gave up on Bill too.

One other thought as I read thru the comments. When some say Tomlin won with Cowher’s players, you do recall Cowher didn’t want Ben, right?

I'd file these comments (about Ben and Tomlin) from the boss under the same heading as from players.

Rooney made the decisions to bring both back. He's not going to say anything but "we brought them back to win".

[Steel Maniac]

I heard Rooney say something along the lines of ‘we believe in Tomlin’s leadership and have confidence in him leading us toward winning another SuperBowl.’

I’m sure I missed some nuance in the message but I think the plan is to win a SuperBowl just like we did with Cowher after everyone gave up on Bill too.

One other thought as I read thru the comments. When some say Tomlin won with Cowher’s players, you do recall Cowher didn’t want Ben, right?

Has no bearing weather Cowher wanted Ben or not.

Cowher fielded some great teams but he did not have a franchise QB until his final 3 years of coaching. And he won when he got a franchise QB.
Tomlin has had a franchise QB his entire tenure. There's no comparison.

If Cowher would have had Ben in the beginning like Tomlin did, we'd have at least two more SB wins.

[Steel Maniac]

I think that Tomlin's results over large sample sizes demonstrate that he has a good process.

You seem to only focus on SB wins. So no matter who you hire, you are going to be disappointed in them them in short order.

You seem to ignore the idea of looking at it as a whole..whole meaning and 11 year span. For argument sake, let's say the process is 100; the end of the process (over those 11 years) has flopped. Now,..is it the process that is flopping or the coach executing the process?

In the Short order, anybody can come up short. But when you do it more than a decade, there needs to be questions asked. Giving someone 10 chances and not one SB appearance with some stacked teams is not an unreasonable thing to ask for.

[hawaiiansteel]

*** They havn't won anything since Shula because they waited too long to fire him. I don't see why you can't get that.

I can only imagine being on a message board with you during the Cowher years.

you would have wanted him fired for years before he finally won his Super Bowl.

[Northern_Blitz]

You seem to ignore the idea of looking at it as a whole..whole meaning and 11 year span. For argument sake, let's say the process is 100; the end of the process (over those 11 years) has flopped. Now,..is it the process that is flopping or the coach executing the process?

In the Short order, anybody can come up. But when you do it more than a decade, there needs to be questions asked. Giving someone 10 chances and not one SB appearance with some stacked teams is not an unreasonable thing to ask for.

I agree that one of us has difficulty looking at his whole body of work.

It might be the guy in the quoted post saying to look at "the whole" while zooming in on a time frame that ignores the data he doesn't like because it goes against his point.

[Mifflin]

What I find incredible is those who criticize Rooney for his support of Tomlin. This is a man who literally has spent his ENTIRE life working at all levels of not only the Steelers but the NFL.

Yet there are posters who actually think they know more and have greater insights.

Be man enough to just say you hate Tomlin and you just make up rationale to try to prove your points

[BURGH86STEEL]

its hilarious..

they have blamed:
Dolphin fans
Wokeness
Hillary Clinton
Lack of hunting by Tomlin and the Rooneys

they are losing their minds. I love it.

Woke? QANON anyone? Well the QANON folks were duped. I wonder how many QANON people participate on this board?

[Steel Maniac]

I can only imagine being on a message board with you during the Cowher years.

you would have wanted him fired for years before he finally won his Super Bowl.

I was on the message board during the Cowher years and I used to give him a pass because he had everything but a QB. I never called for Cowher's head. Not once.

On the other hand, the guy who you support has had a franchise QB his entire career and can't get the job done without Cowher's players and coaches.