Did Harrison start the mudslide?

[squidkid]

True......................... But I know damn well that Tomlin isn't going to win jack here anymore. He is who he is after 12 years.

i say it every year and every year im right. tomlin won with cowhers players and cant with his own

[Steel Maniac]

tomlin has proven to have no useful offensive or defensive knowledge. he cant time manage, call challenges or make game time adjustments. he cant control his locker room.
the only thing making him successful is a HOF qb. once ben is gone, tomlin has no chance to win a super bowl. he cant draft and develop the absolute elite talent he needs to win. tomlin isnt all of a sudden going to change who he is, he is only going to get exposed more

Adjustments???? Hahahaahha. Tomlin has no plan B or C. Ever!!

[Steel Maniac]

Did anyone see the chess match that was going on between the Josh Mcdaniels and the Chiefs DC yesterday? It was awesome. Adjustment after adjustment by both sides. Just from a football purist stand point, it was great.

[Northern_Blitz]

Because he's a competitor like Brady, Brees , Eli, Rivers. He's competitive with all the QB's of his era. That's not hard to figure.

Playoff wins in the last 8 years for the QBs you mentioned.

Brady: 15 / 20 [8 byes] (includes 2 SB wins, 2 SB losses, 1 SB TBD).
Brees: 4 / 8 [2 byes] (I know it's probably shocking to you that the Saints only had 3 wins in 8 years before last week but we've talked about it here before. 1 NFCC appearance)
Eli: 4 / 5 [0 byes] (all wins in 2011. one playoff game since winning the SB in 2011. 1 SB win)
Rivers: 2 / 4 [0 byes] (won 2 wild card games. 0 SB appearances)
Ben: 3 / 8 [1 bye] (all wins include dominant rushing performances > 165 yards. Timeline is strategically chosen to remove SB appearances, 1 ACCC appearance)

Not sure why you didn't mention Russel Wilson and Seattle (maybe not quite "in his era"?), but I included them to show you the benefit of a good QB on a rookie deal...although he only started playing for them in 2012.

Wilson: 8 / 13 [2 byes] (1 SB win)

This shows that 3-4 playoff wins, 8 appearances, and 1 bye in your 8 year span is actually pretty reasonable when you compare it to "the best QBs of this era". It's also pretty good when you compare it to "the best teams of this era".

Your own selection of great QBs shows that your benchmarks for team playoff success aren't realistic. I'll ask you again: What is a reasonable benchmark for team success over your 8 year time period? If that benchmark were greater than what all but Brady and Wilson have accomplished, I'd ask you: Why your benchmark for "great QBs" is significantly different than "great teams"?

I posted regular season and playoff success of teams with franchise QBs (over your cherry picked timeline) a while ago. What I thought that data showed was that the Steelers did as well or better than other teams that (1) weren't the best dynasty of the salary cap era (Pats) or (2) had a franchise QB on a rookie deal (Hawks).

[Northern_Blitz]

Did anyone see the chess match that was going on between the Josh Mcdaniels and the Chiefs DC yesterday? It was awesome. Adjustment after adjustment by both sides. Just from a football purist stand point, it was great.

He seems like a very good OC...but BB's assistants haven't done so well after leaving TB and company.

Maybe that's why McDaniels backed out of the HC job with the Colts?

[Steel Maniac]

Playoff wins in the last 8 years for the QBs you mentioned.

Brady: 15 / 20 [8 byes] (includes 2 SB wins, 2 SB losses, 1 SB TBD).
Brees: 4 / 8 [2 byes] (I know it's probably shocking to you that the Saints only had 3 wins in 8 years before last week but we've talked about it here before. 1 NFCC appearance)
Eli: 4 / 5 [0 byes] (all wins in 2011. one playoff game since winning the SB in 2011. 1 SB win)
Rivers: 2 / 4 [0 byes] (won 2 wild card games. 0 SB appearances)
Ben: 3 / 8 [1 bye] (all wins include dominant rushing performances > 165 yards. Timeline is strategically chosen to remove SB appearances, 1 ACCC appearance)

Not sure why you didn't mention you didn't mention Russel Wilson and Seattle, but I included them to show you the benefit of a good QB on a rookie deal...although he only started playing for them in 2012.

Wilson: 8 / 13 [2 byes] (1 SB win)

This shows that 3-4 playoff wins, 8 appearances, and 1 bye in your 8 year span is actually pretty reasonable when you compare it to "the best QBs of this era". It's also pretty good when you compare it to "the best teams of this era".

Your own selection of elite QBs shows that your benchmarks for playoff success aren't realistic. I'd ask you again what a reasonable benchmark for team success looks like over your time period, but I think you'd avoid the question again.

I posted regular season and playoff success of teams with franchise QBs (over your cherry picked timeline) a while ago. What I thought that data showed was that the Steelers did as well or better than other teams that (1) weren't the best dynasty of the salary cap era (Pats) or (2) had a franchise QB on a rookie deal (Hawks).

You didn't listen then, so my guess is that you won't listen now either.

Oh North, here you come again with bogus stuff. You do not include the facts of we were supposedly further along then those teams in the building of a team process. We were further along then the Seahawks. But they came and built a superior team then us. We were farther along then the Broncos..but Elway walked in and built a team who surpassed us and went to two Super Bowls and he had Manning who was not on " a rookie deal".

Jacksonville jumps up and in a two year time built a team that housed us up in our own building and put us out the playoffs ..in our own building.

So you go from excuse to excuse using other "supposed" inferior organizations to justify our ineptness.

Again, we are a unique organization in this league; like the Patriots. Listen to me carefully North...I don't want you to miss this. We as well as maybe 4 other organizations are measured by what we do in THE POST SEASON.

We are not the Bengals; we are not the Buccaneers; we are not the Cardinals; we are not the Rams; we are not the Seahawks; we are not the Chiefs.

Us, the Cowboys, the 49ers, the Raiders, the Pats ..these 4 organzations (for example) and their fans measure themselves by what they do in THE POST SEASON.

Since Tomlin had lost the majority of Cowher's players by the end of the 2009 season, that is why the 2010 season time line is used. Stop acting like you don't know that.

Since we as an organization have historically measured ourselves by what we do in the Post season, the time line of 2010 going forward is accurate. And since it is about what we do in the post season, please refer to my signature for what we've done in the post season since 2010. That's all that matters. Regular season wins is something that the Bucs, Bengals or Cardinals take solace in.

I'm not going to explain this to you again North; your a smart guy. You know this already.

[Steel Maniac]

He seems like a very good OC...but BB's assistants haven't done so well after leaving TB and company.

Maybe that's why McDaniels backed out of the HC job with the Colts?

Who cares what they do when they leave???? I just know that I saw a good chess match yesterday and appreciated it as a football fan. I hope all of hoody's assistant fail wherever they go. I don't love Hoody but I respect him. He's the best there is unfortunately. I'm not going to lie about that just because I'm a Steeler fan.

[Northern_Blitz]

Playoff wins in the last 8 years for the QBs you mentioned.

Brady: 15 / 20 [8 byes] (includes 2 SB wins, 2 SB losses, 1 SB TBD).
Brees: 4 / 8 [2 byes] (I know it's probably shocking to you that the Saints only had 3 wins in 8 years before last week but we've talked about it here before. 1 NFCC appearance)
Eli: 4 / 5 [0 byes] (all wins in 2011. one playoff game since winning the SB in 2011. 1 SB win)
Rivers: 2 / 4 [0 byes] (won 2 wild card games. 0 SB appearances)
Ben: 3 / 8 [1 bye] (all wins include dominant rushing performances > 165 yards. Timeline is strategically chosen to remove SB appearances, 1 ACCC appearance)

Not sure why you didn't mention Russel Wilson and Seattle (maybe not quite "in his era"?), but I included them to show you the benefit of a good QB on a rookie deal...although he only started playing for them in 2012.

Wilson: 8 / 13 [2 byes] (1 SB win)

This shows that 3-4 playoff wins, 8 appearances, and 1 bye in your 8 year span is actually pretty reasonable when you compare it to "the best QBs of this era". It's also pretty good when you compare it to "the best teams of this era".

Your own selection of great QBs shows that your benchmarks for team playoff success aren't realistic. I'll ask you again: What is a reasonable benchmark for team success over your 8 year time period? If that benchmark were greater than what all but Brady and Wilson have accomplished, I'd ask you: Why your benchmark for "great QBs" is significantly different than "great teams"?

I posted regular season and playoff success of teams with franchise QBs (over your cherry picked timeline) a while ago. What I thought that data showed was that the Steelers did as well or better than other teams that (1) weren't the best dynasty of the salary cap era (Pats) or (2) had a franchise QB on a rookie deal (Hawks).

I think it's also worth noting that you've argued that we're trending down, but we've also got 3 playoff wins and 1 bye in 4 years.

You've just cherry picked 8 years to include the rebuild in 2011 - 2014 where we missed the playoffs 2 years and lost our only 2 playoff games.

Clearly 2015 - 2018 (3 / 6 with 1 bye and one AFCC appearance) is better than 2011 - 2014 (0 / 2 in wildcard games).

So, we were trending up since the rebuild. But, now we have to rebuild again because we (1) lost our best D player to catastrophic injury and (2) can't seem to retain any good players on O except Ben.

I think the question is: If we think the next 4 years will be like the rebuild in 2011 - 2014, does it make sense to trade the QB to get whatever assets we can in exchange for a few playoff appearances without really contending?

I'm tempted to think yes, but maybe Ben just retires if we try to trade him. I think he's still great and we can get a big haul for him.

Although maybe the second best time to have a franchise QB is at the end of their career if they're willing to play below market value to get another SB.

[Steel Maniac]

We are trending down..................... this is the last I'm going to post with you North. You just want to debate for the sake of debating. Nothing more. Here let me help you.

2016--we were eliminated in the AFC championship game
2017--we were eliminated in the conference simi finals
2018--we didn't make the playoffs.


Thats....................trending................. .down.

[Ernie]

Regardless of what you choose to call it... I think next year is a big year for Tomlin (in terms of his future with Pitt)... and the fact that Rooney hasn't made Tomlin's extension a top priority sort of speaks to that notion.

[Northern_Blitz]

Oh North, here you come again with bogus stuff. You do not include the facts of we were supposedly further along then those teams in the building of a team process. We were further along then the Seahawks. But they came and built a superior team then us. We were farther along then the Broncos..but Elway walked in and built a team who surpassed us and went to two Super Bowls and he had Manning who was not on " a rookie deal".

Jacksonville jumps up and in a two year time built a team that housed us up in our own building and put us out the playoffs ..in our own building.

So you go from excuse to excuse using other "supposed" inferior organizations to justify our ineptness.

Again, we are a unique organization in this league; like the Patriots. Listen to me carefully North...I don't want you to miss this. We as well as maybe 4 other organizations are measured by what we do in THE POST SEASON.

We are not the Bengals; we are not the Buccaneers; we are not the Cardinals; we are not the Rams; we are not the Seahawks; we are not the Chiefs.

Us, the Cowboys, the 49ers, the Raiders, the Pats ..these 4 organzations (for example) and their fans measure themselves by what they do in THE POST SEASON.

Since Tomlin had lost the majority of Cowher's players by the end of the 2009 season, that is why the 2010 season time line is used. Stop acting like you don't know that.

Since we as an organization have historically measured ourselves by what we do in the Post season, the time line of 2010 going forward is accurate. And since it is about what we do in the post season, please refer to my signature for what we've done in the post season since 2010. That's all that matters. Regular season wins is something that the Bucs, Bengals or Cardinals take solace in.

I'm not going to explain this to you again North; your a smart guy. You know this already.

So no benchmark, eh? That's certainly the safe play. That way, no one can pin you down (further) to show that your benchmark is unrealistic.

"Listen to me carefully Maniac, because I'm also tired of repeating myself."

Why don't you judge the QB based on the same standard?

If playoff wins in the last 8 years are all that matters for the Steelers, clearly Ben is below the bar. And it's not clear if he can get over that bar again without either and elite D or an elite RB (maybe both).

I think we certainly won't have an elite D in the next 3-4 years (way too many holes to plug).

Hopefully Conner can be a great back. Based on Ben's comments to Bell, he seems to know that he needs a Terrell Davis.

[Northern_Blitz]

We are trending down..................... this is the last I'm going to post with you North. You just want to debate for the sake of debating. Nothing more. Here let me help you.

2016--we were eliminated in the AFC championship game
2017--we were eliminated in the conference simi finals
2018--we didn't make the playoffs.


Thats....................trending................. .down.

I don't want to debate for the sake of debating.

I want you to answer some simple questions.

Because I think doing so will either (1) show you that your argument is inconsistent or (2) show me that I'm wrong about your argument.

[Northern_Blitz]

Regardless of what you choose to call it... I think next year is a big year for Tomlin (in terms of his future with Pitt)... and the fact that Rooney hasn't made Tomlin's extension a top priority sort of speaks to that notion.

This.

If we miss the playoffs next year, we should fire Tomlin (and probably trade Ben too).

[Steel Maniac]

Regardless of what you choose to call it... I think next year is a big year for Tomlin (in terms of his future with Pitt)... and the fact that Rooney hasn't made Tomlin's extension a top priority sort of speaks to that notion.

We've all seen management allow Tomlin to make changes to his assistants; that's the kiss of death sign that management is allowing you once last chance to save yourself. Don't believe me?

Go see how Green Bay allowed Mike McCarthy to change his assistants at the end of the 2017 season too.

[Steel Maniac]

This.

If we miss the playoffs next year, we should fire Tomlin (and probably trade Ben too).

Ben will retire a Steeler. He is not going to play for anyone else.