Big Ben having a P. Manning career ending season?

[SteelBucks]

I'd put Ben just slightly above:

Luck
Stafford
Newton
Carr
Smith

Wow. That’s crazy talk right there.

Your opinion though....

[papillon]

I would take the following above Ben right now:

Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Rivers
Ryan
Cousins
Wilson
Wentz
Goff
Mahommes
Watson

Some based on potential and physical gifts they they seem to be showing the ability to translate to success, and some on experience, but I think all would be my choice heads up over Ben.

I'd put Ben just slightly above:

Luck
Stafford
Newton
Carr
Smith

Like I said, I'll give you the first three and possibly rivers, after that Ben has won more, done more and has had his team in the playoffs more. Everyone gets an opinion, Ben will be a top twenty of all-time when he's done, after Brady, Brees, Rogers and Rivers the others have a long way to go.

Pappy

[D Rock]

Like I said, I'll give you the first three and possibly rivers, after that Ben has won more, done more and has had his team in the playoffs more. Everyone gets an opinion, Ben will be a top twenty of all-time when he's done, after Brady, Brees, Rogers and Rivers the others have a long way to go.

Pappy

I found an interesting website that did an era-adjusted QB rating analysis. You were close on Ben saying he would be top 20 all time. He checks in, as of Jan 2017, at #28 all time.

However, looking at other active players, my rankings are not out of the question considering Ryan and Cousins are statistically trending upwards right now and Ben is not:

6 - Aaron Rodgers 84.7
13 - Tom Brady 80.1
20 - Drew Brees 78.6
21 - Russel Wilson 78.1
27 - Phillip Rivers 75.9
28 - Ben Roethlisberger 75.7
39 - Matt Ryan 74.1
61 - Kirk Cousins 71.2

Going back to my original list - Wentz, Goff, Mahomes, and Watson are not included because there is not enough data to assess their careers numbers. However, for the year 2017, Wentz and Goff had era adjusted ratings as follows, with 'real' QB rating in parentheses for reference since Watson and Mahomes did not qualify to be included on the list. If these numbers become trend and not outlier, then I think saying they are better than Ben right now is not unwarranted.

Wentz 81.6 (101.9 in 2017, 99.6 in 2018 )
Goff 80.2 (100.5 in 2017, 119.7 in 2018 )
Watson (103.0 in 2017, 94.6 in 2018 )
Mahomes (112.7 in 2018 )

Ben 73.1 (93.4 in 2017, 93.2 in 2018, 94.0 career average)

http://www.footballperspective.com/adjusting-passer-rating-for-era-part-v-the-results/

http://www.footballperspective.com/2017-era-adjusted-passer-ratings/

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2017&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Go

[RuthlessBurgher]

Ben Roethlisberger: Pain in elbow changed mechanics

Posted by Darin Gantt on October 10, 2018, 6:17 AM EDT

Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger admitted his elbow injury was changing the way he was throwing last week. So at halftime, he decided to press through the pain.

During his weekly radio appearance on 93.7 The Fan, Roethlisberger said the pain caused him to drop his elbow for his own comfort, and the results weren’t pretty. He was 9-of-17 for 95 yards in the first half, with a touchdown and an interception.

“The second half, I had a talk with myself and said I had to suck it up and deliver the ball like I need to and force my way through it,” Roethlisberger said, via Joe Rutter of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

The results were immediate, as he was 10-of-12 for 155 yards and two touchdowns in the second half.

“I was just dealing with a little bit of an elbow issue,” Roethlisberger said. “It made me drop my elbow a little bit for the comfort factor, which causes the ball to sail. . . .

“We’ve been dealing with it. It’s something I need to mentally get over in terms of my throwing motion. I’ve got to keep the arm high to keep the ball driving instead of sailing, that’s all.”

The initial injury was in the opener against Cleveland, and he missed two practices that week and hasn’t practiced on Wednesday since. While it’s good that he was able to self-diagnose and fix it, it’s also something they’ll have to monitor for the next 12 weeks, to make sure it doesn’t become a bigger issue.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/10/10/ben-roethlisberger-pain-in-elbow-changed-mechanics/

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Do many of you expect Ben to complete every pass, make every play, and make zero bad decisions? 20/29, 250 yds, 3 TD, 2 first downs running and 1 INT (ill advised as it was) this a damn good day for any quarterback in the NFL. Today's Ben can carry this team into the playoffs. Today's game looked like something I would expect in week 1 after a training camp in which everyone participated fully. I think the Steeler keep improving week by week and hopefully, peak at the right time.

Pappy

I think that's a straw man argument. I haven't heard anyone say that's what they expect out of Ben.

I do think a QB needs to not make bone-head, game- or season-losing decisions, and of course I'm talking about his habit of throwing really really bad interceptions. That back foot one in the last game … as was said in this forum somewhere, rookies know better than to do that. Oh, and it's not a bad elbow that makes a QB throw off his back foot into a crowd, a bad decision does.

Let's also add on 3rd downs his seeming inability to see the open guy just far enough downfield to move the chains (these guys are even visible on the TV screen, for goodness' sake). Throwing the long ball is not the odds on way to do what needs to be done, which is move the chains.

And was it in the 2nd Patriots** game that he got picked in the end-zone? I can't see Rodgers, or Brees, or Brady** doing anything but throwing that ball away to live another day. If he hadn't done that our season might have gone very differently, yes it was that important to not throw a pic there.

Ben makes brain-dead throws so often that I don't think anyone who knows him isn't wondering and worried more than a little bit that he's going to do it again every time he lines up behind center. I don't know if he's always been like that and the physical skills he had as a younger man masked it, or if his decision-making (or lack thereof) is getting worse over the years, but he is a much less reliable QB than he used to be.

One stupid throw at the wrong time of a game, instead of throwing it away, can affect a game more than 10-15 completed awesome throws (look at the Jacksonville playoff game last year for an example). All the yardage stats and the like don't compensate for what seems to me like an amazing lack of game awareness a whole lot on his part.

Maybe I'm way off base on this, odds are I must be because the coaches would see this and correct him if it were true, right? … but it's just the way I see it.

Folks can be unhappy with Ben without thinking he has "to complete every pass, make every play, and make zero bad decisions ...", just wanted to point that out.

[pittpete]

Well said Sanantonio

[Captain Lemming]

I e.

Ben makes brain-dead throws so often that I don't think anyone who knows him isn't wondering and worried more than a little bit that he's going to do it again every time he lines up behind center. I don't know if he's always been like that and the physical skills he had as a younger man masked it, or if his decision-making (or lack thereof) is getting worse over the years, but he is a much less reliable QB than he used to be.

One stupid throw at the wrong time of a game, instead of throwing it away, can affect a game more than 10-15 completed awesome throws (look at the Jacksonville playoff game last year for an example). All the yardage stats and the like don't compensate for what seems to me like an amazing lack of game awareness a whole lot on his part.

Maybe I'm way off base on this, odds are I must be because the coaches would see this and correct him if it were true, right? … but it's just the way I see it.

Folks can be unhappy with Ben without thinking he has "to complete every pass, make every play, and make zero bad decisions ...", just wanted to point that out.

Ben is no different than he has always been. The issuesvyou mentioned about going deep versus moving the chains we're FAR WORSE under Arians.

You mentioned the Jax loss?

Ben was better than 90 percent of his playoff WINS that day.

When we had a dominant D, he could have a pick and a fumble......if we score 40 plus we destroyed teams back then.

[Captain Lemming]

Let me add, given the level of defensive support in recent seasons Ben would have never sniffed a championship.

The difference between our championship years and today has absolutely nothing to do with Ben or the offense.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

...

The difference between our championship years and today has absolutely nothing to do with Ben or the offense.

Just in case you were serious - take any one of Ben's bonehead plays away, from the JAX game on, and we'd be talking about wins not losses (or ties). Has nothing to do with years gone by - I'm talking about what's on the field today.

[Captain Lemming]

Just in case you were serious - take any one of Ben's bonehead plays away, from the JAX game on, and we'd be talking about wins not losses (or ties). Has nothing to do with years gone by - I'm talking about what's on the field today.

Never disputed his bone head plays. Just answering your question "is he getting worse".

Which is in fact the topic of this thread.

As of right now he had his typical couple games of "bad Ben" September.

Last season Jax game was among his best playoff games ever. If he didn't make ANY mistakes do we win? Sure.

But 42 points should cover for a pick and a fumble EASILY.

[SteelBucks]

Just in case you were serious - take any one of Ben's bonehead plays away, from the JAX game on, and we'd be talking about wins not losses (or ties). Has nothing to do with years gone by - I'm talking about what's on the field today.

I have a hard time agreeing with you on this one. Without Ben those games against Jax are blowout losses. IMO you can’t look at one of Ben’s mistakes as the reason for a loss when the defense is getting curb stomped.

[raycafan]

I like Brees, think he is a class act and damn good passer. But let’s face it he is a gunslinger like Ben, he currently averages 13 pics a season. Over his 17 years he has 228 interceptions. So even the best of all time does not always make the right decisions, he wants to make a play happen.

[raycafan]

But, Bens decision Sunday was terrible, with everyone standing flat footed, you can cover almost everyone with one person. Send it to the “not so cheap seats” and live to play another play.

[Captain Lemming]

But, Bens decision Sunday was terrible, with everyone standing flat footed, you can cover almost everyone with one person. Send it to the “not so cheap seats” and live to play another play.

This is true. It Was dumb. Ben does dumb sometimes.... Always has.

But it is NOT a Peyton Manning type downturn. It is Ben being Ben.

When the defense does it's job or is EVEN AVERAGE, his occasional dumb throw is overcome by the rest of his game.

Of course when "bad Ben" shows.....ain't nothing gonna save us.

Thankfully, that version tends to go away after September.

[D Rock]

I think the story about the elbow explains what I was seeing and thinking in referencing Manning.
Manning's body failed him, and he started to fail on the field.

Ben's body was failing him, and he started to fail on the field. Thankfully it seems like he corrected it and the 2nd half was excellent. But his first half and several other games still looked like he was losing his physical ability...because he was, temporarily