Big Ben having a P. Manning career ending season?

[D Rock]

Wait a minute. You appear to be moving the goal posts. At first you were saying that Ben was in decline (ala Peyton Manning's final years), now you're saying that Ben has been steady, but that's not good enough. What exactly is your point and the argument behind it?

I am saying both. I do think he is in decline, which will be an issue moving forward because his body can't cash the checks his brain is writing.

The other issue, which is separate, is that the league has changed. Offenses score more, and many quarterbacks now put up numbers just like Ben historically has. And he has stayed steady, which equates to being less good relative to the new league average. Ben has increased yardage, sure, but he also throws a lot more. Yards per attempt has decreased as yards have increased. Efficiency numbers show other QBs passing him by.

As do my eyes watching him physical perform.

[pittpete]

Early on a lot of his throws were high.
He was patient, until he tried to force the ball twice to AB at the end of the half.
Both passes should have been picked and the second one was.

[Captain Lemming]

I am saying both. I do think he is in decline, which will be an issue moving forward because his body can't cash the checks his brain is writing.

The other issue, which is separate, is that the league has changed. Offenses score more, and many quarterbacks now put up numbers just like Ben historically has. And he has stayed steady, which equates to being less good relative to the new league average. Ben has increased yardage, sure, but he also throws a lot more. Yards per attempt has decreased as yards have increased. Efficiency numbers show other QBs passing him by.

As do my eyes watching him physical perform.

Ben has had 3 100 plus QB rating in 5 games.

In 2008 when we won our last SB, he totaled 4 in an entire season.

[skyhawk]

That TD pass he drilled to AB in the right end zone was pretty accurate. Psssh.

[D Rock]

There are also about 5 or 6 guys a year now who go over 100 for the season. Used to be back around 2008 that 100 was a rare full season number and guys in the high 80s were top-ten performers. Ben is now in the low 90s and that has him ranked in the mid low teens.

That's exactly the point I have been making. The bar has been raised. Significantly.

[Steel Maniac]

I believe Ben is a top 5 QB so far this year. What’s the problem?

[Steel Maniac]

Ben has had 3 100 plus QB rating in 5 games.

In 2008 when we won our last SB, he totaled 4 in an entire season.

Exactly.. Ben is playing fine. We just need for the defense to play good football.

[D Rock]

Interesting. I don't think he is even top ten anymore.

[Steel Maniac]

Coming into today’s game Ben was averaging 365 yards a game .. most per game in the NFL.

[D Rock]

Coming into today’s game Ben was averaging 365 yards a game .. most per game in the NFL.

And Ryan Fitzpatrick was the first in NFL history to throw for 400+ in 3 straight games. Not a very important indicator of overall skill, especially when Ben was throwing that much due to playing from behind.

[NorthCoast]

Roethlisberger's yds/att are only slightly below his career average but nowhere near his career low. Yds/att were a strong indicator of a playoff caliber QB, but with all the rule changes, not sure it's as relevant as it used to be.

[papillon]

And Ryan Fitzpatrick was the first in NFL history to throw for 400+ in 3 straight games. Not a very important indicator of overall skill, especially when Ben was throwing that much due to playing from behind.

I think you're mistaking inconsistency for decline in ability. Ben has been inconsistent to this point in the season going from hot to cold sometimes in the same game, today's game was his best game of the season, save for the second quarter. He's going to get better as the year goes on, it's the MO of Ben the last few years when his participation in training camp isn't what it used to be.

Pappy

[Captain Lemming]

There are also about 5 or 6 guys a year now who go over 100 for the season. Used to be back around 2008 that 100 was a rare full season number and guys in the high 80s were top-ten performers. Ben is now in the low 90s and that has him ranked in the mid low teens.

That's exactly the point I have been making. The bar has been raised. Significantly.

SB champ Ben was ranked 24th in 2008 in passer ranking.
He had 17 tds and 15 picks on the season.

[papillon]

Interesting. I don't think he is even top ten anymore.

I'd be interested in seeing who the 10 better than Ben are assuming you believe he's 11th.

Flacco
Dalton
Mayfield
Brady
Tannehill
Darnold
Allen, Josh
Watson
Mariotta
Bortles
Luck
Mahommes
Rivers
Carr
Keenum
Prescott
Wentz
Manning
Smith, Alex
Rogers
Cousins
Stafford
Trubisky
Brees
Newton
Winston/Fitzpatrick
Ryan
Goff
Wilson
Bradford
Beathard

The ones in red are the only QBs in the discussion, IMO, I would say certainly Brady, Brees and Rogers, the others may be in the discussion but IMO they are not better than Ben now or ever. Some names may be tempting to include as possibles but many are too young and haven't carried water long enough even though they are having very good years so far this year and the past few. I believe you will struggle to find 10 for certain quarterbacks better than Ben, Brady may be the only 'for certain' quarterback better than Ben, but I can give you Brees and Rogers, the others just haven't accomplished as much as Ben from a wins/losses perspective.

For me, right now, there is only one quarterback that I would take over Ben and that's only because his team seems to own the Steelers, but other than that, I'll stick with Ben all day and twice on Sunday.

Pappy

[D Rock]

I'd be interested in seeing who the 10 better than Ben are assuming you believe he's 11th.

Flacco
Dalton
Mayfield
Brady
Tannehill
Darnold
Allen, Josh
Watson
Mariotta
Bortles
Luck
Mahommes
Rivers
Carr
Keenum
Prescott
Wentz
Manning
Smith, Alex
Rogers
Cousins
Stafford
Trubisky
Brees
Newton
Winston/Fitzpatrick
Ryan
Goff
Wilson
Bradford
Beathard

The ones in red are the only QBs in the discussion, IMO, I would say certainly Brady, Brees and Rogers, the others may be in the discussion but IMO they are not better than Ben now or ever. Some names may be tempting to include as possibles but many are too young and haven't carried water long enough even though they are having very good years so far this year and the past few. I believe you will struggle to find 10 for certain quarterbacks better than Ben, Brady may be the only 'for certain' quarterback better than Ben, but I can give you Brees and Rogers, the others just haven't accomplished as much as Ben from a wins/losses perspective.

For me, right now, there is only one quarterback that I would take over Ben and that's only because his team seems to own the Steelers, but other than that, I'll stick with Ben all day and twice on Sunday.

Pappy

I would take the following above Ben right now:

Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Rivers
Ryan
Cousins
Wilson
Wentz
Goff
Mahommes
Watson

Some based on potential and physical gifts they they seem to be showing the ability to translate to success, and some on experience, but I think all would be my choice heads up over Ben.

I'd put Ben just slightly above:

Luck
Stafford
Newton
Carr
Smith