Cam Newton coming back to earth!

[snarky]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

[quote=Dee Dub]

.....Dee the idea that this kid is just a runner is just ridiculous.

That is not what I said. But it doenst really matter. We shall see.[/quote:nqxhcgtw]

Coulda fooled me.

ng Team record 4-9
Yeah we all know he can run but can he throw? Seems to be struggling with that overall.

And him running the football doesnt impress me. He's a QB. If he is a better runner than a thrower what do you really have?

etc. etc. etc.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

Some of you guys are amazing. Where did I ever say all Cam does is run?

What I have said is as a passer to this point Cam Newton hasnt been very good. And I think in the long run, accuracy-wise, I think this is how he will always be. And I stand by that regardless of how many yards he throws for.

But I have given you unassailable evidence that Can HAS BEEN mores accurate as a rookie than some of the most accurate QBs in history. I showed you that Can has the highest QB effixiency rating as a college player of anyone in the NFL.

Dude just admit you had no clue that 59 percent that you thought was so horrid is ELITE for rookie QBs who are drafted by bad teams like Can was.
You looked at veteran QBs and ripped the kid. You know what Ben did and thought others are similar

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

[quote=snarky]

.....Dee the idea that this kid is just a runner is just ridiculous.

That is not what I said. But it doenst really matter. We shall see.

Coulda fooled me.

ng Team record 4-9
Yeah we all know he can run but can he throw? Seems to be struggling with that overall.

And him running the football doesnt impress me. He's a QB. If he is a better runner than a thrower what do you really have?

etc. etc. etc.[/quote:3aipddca]

snarky, could you at least be fair? Nothing here is a statment that I said "All he does is run".

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

[quote=Captain Lemming]

Some of you guys are amazing. Where did I ever say all Cam does is run?

What I have said is as a passer to this point Cam Newton hasnt been very good. And I think in the long run, accuracy-wise, I think this is how he will always be. And I stand by that regardless of how many yards he throws for.

But I have given you unassailable evidence that Can HAS BEEN mores accurate as a rookie than some of the most accurate QBs in history. I showed you that Can has the highest QB effixiency rating as a college player of anyone in the NFL.

Dude just admit you had no clue that 59 percent that you thought was so horrid is ELITE for rookie QBs who are drafted by bad teams like Can was.
You looked at veteran QBs and ripped the kid. You know what Ben did and thought others are similar[/quote:3buax3w8]

If you read my threads from the beginning I compared Newton to what I think are similar QB's...Michael Vick and Randall Cunningham. I wasnt the one who brought up other QB's. To me other type of QB's are irrelivant to my point (opinion).

I think just like Vick and Cunningham, when it's all said and done, Cam Newton will again be like them. QB's who could run but werent known for being great passers. I believe teams will make adjustments over time versus him and he will struggle with adversary. And his in ability to be an accurate passer will be more prevelant.

But that is just my opinion. We will see.

And as far as the "You know what Ben did and thought that others were similar", comment, that is an incorrect. The only mention or thought I had about Ben was to point out how some had said they would take Cam over Ben at the beginning of this season. To compare Ben to Cam to me would be ridiculous. Just like Comparing Bradshaw to Cam I also think is ridiculous.

By the way if at some point in time (and that would be far from just his rookie year), where Cam proves me wrong, I sure wont have a hard time admitting I was wrong.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

[quote=Dee Dub][quote="Captain Lemming":179pka9l]

Some of you guys are amazing. Where did I ever say all Cam does is run?

What I have said is as a passer to this point Cam Newton hasnt been very good. And I think in the long run, accuracy-wise, I think this is how he will always be. And I stand by that regardless of how many yards he throws for.

But I have given you unassailable evidence that Can HAS BEEN mores accurate as a rookie than some of the most accurate QBs in history. I showed you that Can has the highest QB effixiency rating as a college player of anyone in the NFL.

Dude just admit you had no clue that 59 percent that you thought was so horrid is ELITE for rookie QBs who are drafted by bad teams like Can was.
You looked at veteran QBs and ripped the kid. You know what Ben did and thought others are similar[/quote:179pka9l]

If you read my threads from the beginning I compared Newton to what I think are similar QB's...Michael Vick and Randall Cunningham. I wasnt the one who brought up other QB's. To me other type of QB's are irrelivant to my point (opinion).

I think just like Vick and Cunningham, when it's all said and done, Cam Newton will again be like them. QB's who could run but werent known for being great passers. I believe teams will make adjustments over time versus him and he will struggle with adversary. And his in ability to be an accurate passer will be more prevelant.

But that is just my opinion. We will see.

And as far as the "You know what Ben did and thought that others were similar", comment, that is an incorrect. The only mention or thought I had about Ben was to point out how some had said they would take Cam over Ben at the beginning of this season. To compare Ben to Cam to me would be ridiculous. Just like Comparing Bradshaw to Cam I also think is ridiculous.

By the way if at some point in time (and that would be far from just his rookie year), where Cam proves me wrong, I sure wont have a hard time admitting I was wrong.[/quote:179pka9l]

The problem with your "logic" is that you judge Cam as a passer based on how well he "runs". That makes zero sense. You lump him in with other QBs who could run regardless of how their skills as a passers compare.

Now you say we cannot compare him AS A PASSER to guys who cannot run, because they are a "different kind" of QB?

You cannot wave around a 59 percent pass percentage like it means something and then I can show you are plain as day that Peyton threw for 56 percent, with a LOWER average yard per pass with more ints than TDs and tell me Peyton was more accurate as a rookie.

You judge him negatively based on his passing percentage. Now when you see that it is superior percentage for a rookie, I cannot compare him to guys who cant run?

I cannot even compare him to the number three highest running QB of all time, because he is not "that kind of QB?".

Steve Youngs first season as a full time starter 2 wins:
Passing: 2282 yards 53 percent 8 TDs 13 interceptions. 65 QB rating
Rushing: 425 yards 8 TDs
Better runner or passer?

Dont give me BYU, base your comments on the NFL stats you dis Cam on. Rookie NFL numbers. By literally NO POSSIBLE MEASURE was Steve Young a better first year starter than Cam. And Steve Young was not a rookie. He was even worse then.

Steve Young was NOT more accurate as a rookie QB. Not close.

Truth be told if Cam "looked" like Steve Young, nobody would compare him to Vick.

[feltdizz]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

If you read my threads from the beginning I compared Newton to what I think are similar QB's...Michael Vick and Randall Cunningham. I wasnt the one who brought up other QB's. To me other type of QB's are irrelivant to my point (opinion).

I think just like Vick and Cunningham, when it's all said and done, Cam Newton will again be like them. QB's who could run but werent known for being great passers. I believe teams will make adjustments over time versus him and he will struggle with adversary. And his in ability to be an accurate passer will be more prevelant.

But that is just my opinion. We will see.

And as far as the "You know what Ben did and thought that others were similar", comment, that is an incorrect. The only mention or thought I had about Ben was to point out how some had said they would take Cam over Ben at the beginning of this season. To compare Ben to Cam to me would be ridiculous. Just like Comparing Bradshaw to Cam I also think is ridiculous.

By the way if at some point in time (and that would be far from just his rookie year), where Cam proves me wrong, I sure wont have a hard time admitting I was wrong.

A large portion of your argument was due to Cam's running skills and not being patient enough to throw his way down field.

You questioned his accuracy and used his 59% as proof he wasn't a great passer and "fell back to earth"

One guy said he would take Cam over Ben and I'm pretty sure he wasn't serious. I think Captain and Cam have already proved you wrong. The 59% you use to bash him is tops among ALL rookie QB's drafted #1 and he is about to break the rookie passing record held by Peyton Manning.

I've never seen anyone use record breaking stats as proof a guy doesn't have what it takes to be an accurate passer in the NFL.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

The problem with your "logic" is that you judge Cam as a passer based on how well he "runs". That makes zero sense. You lump him in with other QBs who could run regardless of how their skills as a passers compare.

One, it's really not logic, it's more my opinion.

Now you say we cannot compare him AS A PASSER to guys who cannot run, because they are a "different kind" of QB?

QB's who arent running QB's focus primarily on what? Throwing the football. That is why the good to great ones improve over time.

You cannot wave around a 59 percent pass percentage like it means something and then I can show you are plain as day that Peyton threw for 56 percent, with a LOWER average yard per pass with more ints than TDs and tell me Peyton was more accurate as a rookie.

Peyton Manning in his worst throwing year is head and shoulders above Cam as a passer. That is why I dont think it is relevant to compare some one like him and his rookie year to that of Cam. Numbers are numbers. You cant tell me they are comparable just because of what their rookie numbers were.

You judge him negatively based on his passing percentage. Now when you see that it is superior percentage for a rookie, I cannot compare him to guys who cant run?

That is not the only reason why have judged him negatively. He has thrown 16 picks in 14 games.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

Again, my thought is that Cam will follow the path of similar QB's like Vick and Cunningham. And in time not ever be considered a great passing QB.

And no one on this forum is going to change that thought I have. Only Cam Newton can change it.

[snarky]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

Peyton Manning in his worst throwing year is head and shoulders above Cam as a passer. That is why I dont think it is relevant to compare some one like him and his rookie year to that of Cam. Numbers are numbers. You cant tell me they are comparable just because of what their rookie numbers were.

...

That is not the only reason why have judged him negatively. He has thrown 16 picks in 14 games.

Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs in 16 games in his worst throwing year. (He also only completed 56.7% of his passes.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

Peyton Manning in his worst throwing year is head and shoulders above Cam as a passer. That is why I dont think it is relevant to compare some one like him and his rookie year to that of Cam. Numbers are numbers. You cant tell me they are comparable just because of what their rookie numbers were.

...

That is not the only reason why have judged him negatively. He has thrown 16 picks in 14 games.

Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs in 16 games in his worst throwing year. (He also only completed 56.7% of his passes.

Again..I'm not looking at numbers when I look at Manning and Cam. I'm looking at reality. Manning is and will always be a better passer than Cam.

[snarky]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

[quote=Dee Dub]

Peyton Manning in his worst throwing year is head and shoulders above Cam as a passer. That is why I dont think it is relevant to compare some one like him and his rookie year to that of Cam. Numbers are numbers. You cant tell me they are comparable just because of what their rookie numbers were.

...

That is not the only reason why have judged him negatively. He has thrown 16 picks in 14 games.

Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs in 16 games in his worst throwing year. (He also only completed 56.7% of his passes.

Again..I'm not looking at numbers when I look at Manning and Cam. I'm looking at reality. Manning is and will always be a better passer than Cam.[/quote:2z0pav6l]

You sure were looking at numbers when you started this thread. What happened?

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

[quote=snarky]

Peyton Manning in his worst throwing year is head and shoulders above Cam as a passer. That is why I dont think it is relevant to compare some one like him and his rookie year to that of Cam. Numbers are numbers. You cant tell me they are comparable just because of what their rookie numbers were.

...

That is not the only reason why have judged him negatively. He has thrown 16 picks in 14 games.

Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs in 16 games in his worst throwing year. (He also only completed 56.7% of his passes.

Again..I'm not looking at numbers when I look at Manning and Cam. I'm looking at reality. Manning is and will always be a better passer than Cam.

You sure were looking at numbers when you started this thread. What happened?[/quote:1rnsn9hm]

Wow snarky..is it that hard to understand? I am looking at numbers and how his compare to similar QB's.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

[quote=Dee Dub]

Peyton Manning in his worst throwing year is head and shoulders above Cam as a passer. That is why I dont think it is relevant to compare some one like him and his rookie year to that of Cam. Numbers are numbers. You cant tell me they are comparable just because of what their rookie numbers were.

...

That is not the only reason why have judged him negatively. He has thrown 16 picks in 14 games.

Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs in 16 games in his worst throwing year. (He also only completed 56.7% of his passes.

Again..I'm not looking at numbers when I look at Manning and Cam. I'm looking at reality. Manning is and will always be a better passer than Cam.[/quote:91u8a15s]

Seems like you are the only one on here not looking at reality. As several of us have shown again and again with multiple examples, reality is that rookie QB's tend to have low completion percentages and throw more interceptions than TD's. Many, many Super Bowl winning QB's, league MVP QB's, Hall of Fame QB's all had low completion percentages and threw more interceptions than TD's as rookies. Outside of Marino and Roethlisberger, this has been the case for seemingly every QB in the history of the NFL. But you don't expect Cam to improve as a passer because he has a low completion percentage and has thrown more interceptions than TD's. That makes no sense.

Why is Cam only compared with Cunningham and Vick? Those guys are thin and quick at 215 lbs., while Cam is built like a redwood tree at 240+ (his body type is more similar to Ben Roethlisberger and Josh Freeman than Cunningham or Vick).

[snarky]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

[quote=Dee Dub][quote=snarky]

Peyton Manning in his worst throwing year is head and shoulders above Cam as a passer. That is why I dont think it is relevant to compare some one like him and his rookie year to that of Cam. Numbers are numbers. You cant tell me they are comparable just because of what their rookie numbers were.

...

That is not the only reason why have judged him negatively. He has thrown 16 picks in 14 games.

Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs in 16 games in his worst throwing year. (He also only completed 56.7% of his passes.

Again..I'm not looking at numbers when I look at Manning and Cam. I'm looking at reality. Manning is and will always be a better passer than Cam.

You sure were looking at numbers when you started this thread. What happened?[/quote:32hzvwvk]

Wow snarky..is it that hard to understand? I am looking at numbers and how his compare to similar QB's.[/quote:32hzvwvk]

The only thing that Cam Newton has in common with Cunningham and Vick is his ability to run the ball. As a passer he appears to be miles better than them.

[feltdizz]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

The only thing Cam has in common with Vick and Cunningham is skin color... he isn't as fast as Vick, he isn't as lanky as Cunningham and he throws better then both.