Cam Newton coming back to earth!

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

What about this guy?

Year One:

72-138, 52.2%, 935 passing yards, 6.8 YPA, 3 passing TD, 8 INT, 56.9 QBR

40 rushes, 233 rushing yards, 5.8 YPC, 1 rushing TD

Year Two:

195-363, 53.7%, 2282 passing yards, 6.3 YPA, 8 passing TD, 13 INT, 65.5 QBR

74 rushes, 425 rushing yards, 5.7 YPC, 5 rushing TD's.

He was more effective with his legs than his arm early in his career, but turned things around from a crappy completion percentage and more INT's than TD's early in his career and became a Super Bowl winning QB (throwing 6 TD passes in his Super Bowl victory) and ultimately a Hall of Fame QB. Sure, it helped that he moved from the awful Bucs to a significantly better 49er team, but it goes to show that scrambling QB's can become championship-level passers...they are doomed by having poor completion percentages and more interceptions than touchdown passes early in their careers.

[feltdizz]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

I dint use Vick’s and Cunningham’s rookie stats. I used their career stats. The point I am trying to make is just like them, in my opinion, Cam Newton will never develop into a great passer.

But if you want to use comparable rookie stats to a similar type of QB then use Kordell Stewart's first year as a starting QB. And Kordell never developed into an above average passer.

3020 passing yards, 21 TD's, 17 INT's, 53.6% completion percentage, 476 yards rushing and 11 TD's rushing. At that time Kordell looked as if his future was bright. As if the Steelers hit on the next great QB.

Rest of his career? 56 TD's passing and 67 INT's.

Your back has to hurt from moving the goal post around so much.

How many OC's did Stewart have while QB? He was blamed for the AFCCG loss to the Pats in a game that had a blocked FG for a TD and a punt return for a TD.

Why not use all the rookie QB's you mentioned instead of using Kordell who was once blasted by his OC after running for a TD instead of throwing the ball?

Cam is so far ahead of Stewart as a passer it's not even funny.

[snarky]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

Doing a little research shows that the whole "more INTs than TDs" matters little in a guy's rookie year. Here's a list (incomplete) that threw more INTs than TDs their first season as starter

Unitas
Bradshaw
Griese
Elway
E. Manning
P. Manning
Theismann
Simms
Starr
Aikman

There's a lot of rings on that list.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

What about this guy?

Year One:

72-138, 52.2%, 935 passing yards, 6.8 YPA, 3 passing TD, 8 INT, 56.9 QBR

40 rushes, 233 rushing yards, 5.8 YPC, 1 rushing TD

Year Two:

195-363, 53.7%, 2282 passing yards, 6.3 YPA, 8 passing TD, 13 INT, 65.5 QBR

74 rushes, 425 rushing yards, 5.7 YPC, 5 rushing TD's.

He was more effective with his legs than his arm early in his career, but turned things around from a crappy completion percentage and more INT's than TD's early in his career and became a Super Bowl winning QB (throwing 6 TD passes in his Super Bowl victory) and ultimately a Hall of Fame QB. Sure, it helped that he moved from the awful Bucs to a significantly better 49er team, but it goes to show that scrambling QB's can become championship-level passers...they are doomed by having poor completion percentages and more interceptions than touchdown passes early in their careers.

It took 9 pages for someone to bring up Steve Young. He has always been a throw first QB. Before he played in Tampa Bay he lit it up at BYU. Two years as the starting QB he threw for over 7,000 yards. He ran when he had too but he was a thrower from day one.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

Doing a little research shows that the whole "more INTs than TDs" matters little in a guy's rookie year. Here's a list (incomplete) that threw more INTs than TDs their first season as starter

Unitas
Bradshaw
Griese
Elway
E. Manning
P. Manning
Theismann
Simms
Starr
Aikman

There's a lot of rings on that list.

Again, pocket passers who relied on their arms first. Not the other way around.

Show me the opposite and how many rings are on that list.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

I dint use Vick’s and Cunningham’s rookie stats. I used their career stats. The point I am trying to make is just like them, in my opinion, Cam Newton will never develop into a great passer.

But if you want to use comparable rookie stats to a similar type of QB then use Kordell Stewart's first year as a starting QB. And Kordell never developed into an above average passer.

3020 passing yards, 21 TD's, 17 INT's, 53.6% completion percentage, 476 yards rushing and 11 TD's rushing. At that time Kordell looked as if his future was bright. As if the Steelers hit on the next great QB.

Rest of his career? 56 TD's passing and 67 INT's.

Your back has to hurt from moving the goal post around so much.

How many OC's did Stewart have while QB? He was blamed for the AFCCG loss to the Pats in a game that had a blocked FG for a TD and a punt return for a TD.

Why not use all the rookie QB's you mentioned instead of using Kordell who was once blasted by his OC after running for a TD instead of throwing the ball?

Cam is so far ahead of Stewart as a passer it's not even funny.

Ok use Vick and Cunningham's rookie years. It doenst matter. Still proves my point. Those type of QB's dont have great success long term as passers nor do they win championships.

I used their careers to show how they ended up. But Vick and Cunningham had some success but in the overall picture of great passing QB's, where are they on that list? Not even top 50 all time. And ya boy Cam wont sniff that either when it's said and done. My opinion.

[snarky]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

Doing a little research shows that the whole "more INTs than TDs" matters little in a guy's rookie year. Here's a list (incomplete) that threw more INTs than TDs their first season as starter

Unitas
Bradshaw
Griese
Elway
E. Manning
P. Manning
Theismann
Simms
Starr
Aikman

There's a lot of rings on that list.

Again, pocket passers who relied on their arms first. Not the other way around.

Show me the opposite and how many rings are on that list.

On one hand I can see what you are saying. But on the other hand, it seems like all you are doing is penalizing the guy for being able to run. Even as a pure passer he is having a great rookie season (throw out his running numbers). So I guess your argument is that running QBs get 'figured out' after their first season. But other than Stewart, I don't know how many example you have.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

On one hand I can see what you are saying.

It only took you 9 pages of this thread to come to that.

But on the other hand, it seems like all you are doing is penalizing the guy for being able to run. Even as a pure passer he is having a great rookie season (throw out his running numbers). So I guess your argument is that running QBs get 'figured out' after their first season. But other than Stewart, I don't know how many example you have.

Not at all. I am penalizing him (as you put it), for his lack of ability to throw the ball with an above average amount of accuracy.

I hope it doesnt take another 9 pages for you to see that.

[snarky]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

On one hand I can see what you are saying.

It only took you 9 pages of this thread to come to that.

But on the other hand, it seems like all you are doing is penalizing the guy for being able to run. Even as a pure passer he is having a great rookie season (throw out his running numbers). So I guess your argument is that running QBs get 'figured out' after their first season. But other than Stewart, I don't know how many example you have.

Not at all. I am penalizing him (as you put it), for his lack of ability to throw the ball with an above average amount of accuracy.

I hope it doesnt take another 9 pages for you to see that.

But when you compare him to other true rookies he is way above average in terms of completion %, so you are operating on a false premise. As I posted earlier, only three other true rookies have passed for over 3000 yards and had a completion % greater than or equal to 55.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

On one hand I can see what you are saying.

It only took you 9 pages of this thread to come to that.

But on the other hand, it seems like all you are doing is penalizing the guy for being able to run. Even as a pure passer he is having a great rookie season (throw out his running numbers). So I guess your argument is that running QBs get 'figured out' after their first season. But other than Stewart, I don't know how many example you have.

Not at all. I am penalizing him (as you put it), for his lack of ability to throw the ball with an above average amount of accuracy.

I hope it doesnt take another 9 pages for you to see that.

But when you compare him to other true rookies he is way above average in terms of completion %, so you are operating on a false premise. As I posted earlier, only three other true rookies have passed for over 3000 yards and had a completion % greater than or equal to 55.

Maybe you should go back and read this thread again?? I think in your desire to prove me wrong you have not really understood what it is I am actually saying about Cam Newton. And no offense by that. I've done that myself.

I think because of Cam Newton's natural athletic instincts (run when things break down), is below accurate passing skills, and his less than desirable decision making ability, he will never develop as an above average passer.

If you add these things up they dont equate to a bonafide passer. You cant run yourself to a championship in the NFL as a passer. I believe his development will be hindered because of his strength as a runner. And when teams sell out to stop or at least control his running some, his passing numbers will suffer even more. And I dont think when that happens you will see many 400 yard passing games.

[feltdizz]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

Dub you clearly haven't watched Cam this year. Cam isn't taking off when things break down and some say he should tuck it and run more often due to the suspect line play. Most of Cam's runs are designed runs, especially inside the 10 in the redzone.

I know you have this theory based on nothing more than an opinion but I think you are wrong on this one. Will he win a SB? I doubt it but he will be a solid QB and the FO doesn't have to worry about the QB position for a while.

Everyone thought Sam Bradford would be further along then he is given his rookie year. You never know who will pan out at QB but Cam hasn't given any indication that he has hit the ceiling as a passer.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

You do realize that "run-first, pass-second" Cam Newton has more passing yards through 13 games than God's gift to quarterbacking, Ben Roethlisberger (3573 vs. 3526). Cam has also accounted for more TD's than Ben (28 vs. 21). Sure, 13 of Cam's TD's came on the ground rather than through the air, but isn't it the job of the QB, the leader of the offense on the field, to score touchdowns, regardless of how the ball gets in the end zone? The Steelers high powered offense with a two-time Super Bowl champion at the helm (plus big time weapons like Wallace and Brown and Sanders and Ward and Cotchery and Miller and Saunders and Johnson and Mendenhall and Redman and Moore) has scored 282 points this season, while the Panthers sucktastic offense led by rookie who is a better runner than a thrower (with Steve Smith, Legadu Naanee, Brandon LaFell, Seyi Ajirotutu, Armanti Edwards, Greg Olsen, Jeremy Shockey, Richie Brockel, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, and Mike Goodson) has scored 313 points this season. I'm not saying that Cam is better than Ben...far from it. But for someone who probably already knows Ben's sportjacket measurements for his Hall of Fame blazer, and has already thrown Newton onto the Island of Misfit Athletic Quarterbacks, you gotta admit that those stats are pretty remarkable, no?

[Dee Dub]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

Felt, Ruthless....this is what I know. 59.8% completion percentage, 16 INT's and a 4-9 record.

Sorry fellows nothing you can say is going to change that nor my opinion of Cam Newton. And those numbers help my opinion more than your opinion about Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!!

[snarky]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

And those numbers help my opinion more than your opinion about Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!!

This in itself is simply your opinion and it's wrong.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Cam Newton coming back to earth!

Felt, Ruthless....this is what I know. 59.8% completion percentage, 16 INT's and a 4-9 record.

Sorry fellows nothing you can say is going to change that nor my opinion of Cam Newton. And those numbers help my opinion more than your opinion about Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!!

Dee how many true number one pick QBs (these end up on the leagues worst team) have better numbers than those you just posted?