"It's scary how good Ben can be"

[feltdizz]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

I'm not knocking Ben, the guy has been great but people act like the Steelers were the Browns before he arrived.

And what would you call four of the previous six January's missing the playoffs, and two 10 loss seasons in the previous five prior to his arrival? Good football?

The Browns made the playoffs once in their first five years when they came back in the league.

The Steelers made the playoffs twice in that same span.

How were the teams so different prior to Ben's arrival again?

The new Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons before Ben. Ben is 12-1 against them.

If the Browns would have picked Ben? The entire division's landscape would have been completely reversed.

God Bless Butch Davis!

when did Lebeau arrive? I think he made a difference in the D.

you need to stop acting like the Steelers were this pathetic franchise who couldn't win before Ben arrived. We had some pretty good teams under Cowher, it's crazy to suggest otherwise.

cherry picking when we missed the playoffs? C'mon... just list the actual records from 94 to 2003.

I think there is 3 AFCCG's and a SB if I'm not mistaken. That isn't a bad track record.

I'm not knocking Ben... I just think it's ludicrous to knock the Steelers without Ben. We had decent teams we just had average QB play.

You mentioned the Browns, not me. I compared the Steelers of 1999-2003 to the 1999-2003 Browns.

Don't change the argument when your point got soundly defeated.

True... but I just picked a "losing" franchise... Lions, Bungles... whatever. My point was the Steelers weren't horrible before Ben arrived.

[skyhawk]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

I'm not knocking Ben, the guy has been great but people act like the Steelers were the Browns before he arrived.

And what would you call four of the previous six January's missing the playoffs, and two 10 loss seasons in the previous five prior to his arrival? Good football?

The Browns made the playoffs once in their first five years when they came back in the league.

The Steelers made the playoffs twice in that same span.

How were the teams so different prior to Ben's arrival again?

The new Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons before Ben. Ben is 12-1 against them.

If the Browns would have picked Ben? The entire division's landscape would have been completely reversed.

God Bless Butch Davis!

when did Lebeau arrive? I think he made a difference in the D.

you need to stop acting like the Steelers were this pathetic franchise who couldn't win before Ben arrived. We had some pretty good teams under Cowher, it's crazy to suggest otherwise.

cherry picking when we missed the playoffs? C'mon... just list the actual records from 94 to 2003.

I think there is 3 AFCCG's and a SB if I'm not mistaken. That isn't a bad track record.

I'm not knocking Ben... I just think it's ludicrous to knock the Steelers without Ben. We had decent teams we just had average QB play.

You mentioned the Browns, not me. I compared the Steelers of 1999-2003 to the 1999-2003 Browns.

Don't change the argument when your point got soundly defeated.

True... but I just picked a "losing" franchise... Lions, Bungles... whatever. My point was the Steelers weren't horrible before Ben arrived.

No they weren't horrible. They couldn't make big plays in crunch time.

[feltdizz]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

Like Feltdizz said, we were successful without Ben.

We won no rings from 1983-2003 prior to Ben.

How many of those teams above had solid defenses? Solid running games?

Now how many of those teams were held back because their QBs couldn't get the job done?

You are being ignorant. If anything the Steelers own past proves my point.

They let good QBs go over the years, Dawson, Morrall, Jack Kemp, they also cut Johnny Unitas.

They won NOTHING for 40 years.

They then draft Bradshaw, they allow him the patience to grow, they didn't dump him at the first signs of trouble like they did the others.

They won four SBs in 10 seasons with him.

Then, they ignored the QB position minus trades for flops Todd Blackledge and David Woodley after they PASSED on Dan Marino in the draft. Even when a guy like eventual Hall of Famer Jim Kelly was BEGGING them to try and trade for him when the USFL was in trouble. They tried to get by with stop gaps and projects, it failed.

feltdizz mentions the 1995 AFC title team? Guess what? That was the ONLY TEAM in the first 10 years of Bill Cowher's career that had a TOP TEN PASSING TEAM, and it was the only time in 10 years that he went to a Super Bowl.

So much for running the ball and playing defense huh?

It's a QB driven league and it always has been. You could say the Steelers of 1983-2003 were an extended version of the 2000's Baltimore Ravens. How many teams have the Ravens had in this decade that featured good running games and solid defenses only to be held back by bad QB play?

That's not winning football, if anything it's not winning ENOUGH because the most important position on the team let you down.

Only in simple minded Pittsburgh would fans value defense and running games over the QB position, even after their own teams history makes that opinion basically worthless.

A perennial winning organization? This team was founded in 1933, not 1970 when Bradshaw arrived.

I'm not saying Ben isn't the difference between winning SB's and not winning SB's...

I was born in 1973 so all I know is a winning franchise that had a few down years in the 80's.

Unless you were in the stadium in 1935 it makes no sense to point out the 1930's, 40's and 50's. As a black man I don't even recognize sports before blacks were allowed on the field.

[feltdizz]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

yeah

i guess some people here have a different definition of "winning football"

This is winning football my friend. It's not SB ring football but it's "winning" football.

• Jan.5, 2003 - Pittsburgh 36, Cleveland 33 - AFC Wild Card

• Jan. 27, 2002 - New England 24, Pittsburgh 17 - AFC Championship

• Jan. 20, 2002 - Pittsburgh 27, Baltimore 10 - AFC Divisional

• Jan. 11, 1998 - Denver 24, Pittsburgh 21 - AFC Championship

• Jan. 3, 1998 - Pittsburgh 7, New England 6 - AFC Divisional

• Jan. 5, 1997 - New England 28, Pittsburgh 3 - AFC Divisional

• Dec. 29, 1996 - Pittsburgh 42, Indianapolis 14 - AFC Wild Card

• Jan. 28, 1996 - Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17 - Super Bowl

• Jan. 14, 1996 - Pittsburgh 20, Indianapolis 16 - AFC Championship

• Jan. 6, 1996 - Pittsburgh 40, Buffalo 21 - AFC Divisional

• Jan. 15, 1995 - San Diego 17, Pittsburgh 13 - AFC Championship

• Jan. 7, 1995 - Pittsburgh 29, Cleveland 9 - AFC Divisional

• Jan. 8, 1994 - Kansas City 24, Pittsburgh 23 - AFC Wild Card

• Jan. 9, 1993 - Buffalo 24, Pittsburgh 3 - AFC Divisional

• Jan. 7, 1990 - Denver 24, Pittsburgh 23 - AFC Divisional

• Dec. 31, 1989 - Pittsburgh 26, Houston 23 - AFC Wild Card

• Jan. 6, 1985 - Miami 45, Pittsburgh 28 - AFC Championship

• Dec. 30, 1984 - Pittsburgh 24, Denver 17 - AFC Divisional

• Jan. 1, 1984 - Los Angeles 38, Pittsburgh 10 - AFC Divisional

• Jan. 9, 1983 - San Diego 31, Pittsburgh 28 - AFC Playoff

Steeler fans have a Ricky Bobby mentality.

I know winning a SB is the ultimate goal but acting like the Steelers were cellar dwellers before Ben isn't a true representation of our team.

It's like a Bills fan saying those Jim Kelly teams sucked if they won a SB 2 years after Kelly retired. Ben can be great without sh!tting on on those past Steeler teams who were one piece away from closing the deal. Ben is a great QB but I'll be damned if some Ben nut hugger (not you ) tries to throw dirt on past Steeler teams because they came up short. We had some damn good teams some years. Just because they didn't win it all it doesn't mean they weren't good.

Ben is a beast but some people showed their delusional side with the 0-4 or 1-3 predictions without Ben. People who give Ben all the credit swore up and down that we couldn't even field a team without him.

Like I said earlier... the Steelers have shown the ability to get to AFCCG's.... but Ben is the key to winning AFCCG's. Teams who make AFCCG's and playoffs more times then they miss it our considered winning teams.

[feltdizz]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

No they weren't horrible. They couldn't make big plays in crunch time.

true... and most of those big plays were ST's and D.

My whole point was the Steelers before Ben weren't garbage... Crash acts like the Steelers didn't know what winning was before Ben arrived. We didn't know what winning a SB felt like since 79 but we made the playoffs more times than we missed them.

[williar]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

And don't forget Ben did not play well in super bowl XL, XLV, and was not spectacular in XLIII. He did not have a good playoff run leading up to super bowl XLV. Did not play well in the playoff run in 2004 when we lost to the patriots in the AFCCG. So even in the most recent success, this team does not live or die on the play of Roethlisberger.

[Oviedo]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

FACT: We are not in the play offs without Ben.

All this we are OK without Ben talk is just insane. Do you really think we win the AFC North, have a 12-4 record and are in the Super Bowl this past year with Leftwich or Batch? That is nonsense.

Ben is a difference maker and is a Top 5 QB in this league.

[ScoreKeeper]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

And don't forget Ben did not play well in super bowl XL, XLV, and was not spectacular in XLIII. He did not have a good playoff run leading up to super bowl XLV. Did not play well in the playoff run in 2004 when we lost to the patriots in the AFCCG. So even in the most recent success, this team does not live or die on the play of Roethlisberger.

One cannot even begin to point out the total bull-s hit in this post.

Irongut?

[ScoreKeeper]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

FACT: We are not in the play offs without Ben.

All this we are OK without Ben talk is just insane. Do you really think we win the AFC North, have a 12-4 record and are in the Super Bowl this past year with Leftwich or Batch? That is nonsense.

Ben is a difference maker and is a Top 5 QB in this league.

You're wrong. Ben sucks. Trade him and bring back Kordell. He looked good on Joes vs Pros.

[Oviedo]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

FACT: We are not in the play offs without Ben.

All this we are OK without Ben talk is just insane. Do you really think we win the AFC North, have a 12-4 record and are in the Super Bowl this past year with Leftwich or Batch? That is nonsense.

Ben is a difference maker and is a Top 5 QB in this league.

You're wrong. Ben sucks. Trade him and bring back Kordell. He looked good on Joes vs Pros.

Yea we'll just rely on our defense and running game just like in the "good ol' days."

Our defense did so well against the Packers why would we need Ben.

[ScoreKeeper]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

FACT: We are not in the play offs without Ben.

All this we are OK without Ben talk is just insane. Do you really think we win the AFC North, have a 12-4 record and are in the Super Bowl this past year with Leftwich or Batch? That is nonsense.

Ben is a difference maker and is a Top 5 QB in this league.

You're wrong. Ben sucks. Trade him and bring back Kordell. He looked good on Joes vs Pros.

Yea we'll just rely on our defense and running game just like in the "good ol' days."

Our defense did so well against the Packers why would we need Ben.

Oh, the good ol days. No rings and constant disappointment. But we had a good running game dammmit. And Cowher was spitting and screaming, and we were playing "tough Steelers Football", and darn it all, people liked us.

[williar]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

Well for that matter, I'm disappointed right now we didn't get #7 when it was right there for the taking if our QB could have managed to make a play or two. And hell yeah! I think our offense could do much better! Are their any Rogers, Brees, Brady's, Rivers, Mannings, available?

[skyhawk]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

Well for that matter, I'm disappointed right now we didn't get #7 when it was right there for the taking if our QB could have managed to make a play or two. And hell yeah! I think our offense could do much better! Are their any Rogers, Brees, Brady's, Rivers, Mannings, available?

A poor Oline, mediocre receivers (Wallace drop), crappy penalty on ST's, his two picks, and a mental drubbing for two weeks by the lynch media constantly reminding him of Georgia. I think that finally was a bit too much for him.

[ScoreKeeper]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

Well for that matter, I'm disappointed right now we didn't get #7 when it was right there for the taking if our QB could have managed to make a play or two. And hell yeah! I think our offense could do much better! Are their any Rogers, Brees, Brady's, Rivers, Mannings, available?

Brees, Rivers, Rogers, and Manning have less po wins/rings than the guy you're trying to tear up. And Brady's have the forever * beside them.

Try again Cupcake.

Troll.

[feltdizz]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

FACT: We are not in the play offs without Ben.

All this we are OK without Ben talk is just insane. Do you really think we win the AFC North, have a 12-4 record and are in the Super Bowl this past year with Leftwich or Batch? That is nonsense.

Ben is a difference maker and is a Top 5 QB in this league.

You're wrong. Ben sucks. Trade him and bring back Kordell. He looked good on Joes vs Pros.

Yea we'll just rely on our defense and running game just like in the "good ol' days."

Our defense did so well against the Packers why would we need Ben.

Oh, the good ol days. No rings and constant disappointment. But we had a good running game dammmit. And Cowher was spitting and screaming, and we were playing "tough Steelers Football", and darn it all, people liked us.

FACT: "there is no way we go 3-1 without Ben to start the season"

No one is saying we could win SB's without Ben... No one is saying Ben sucks or he should be traded. Well, I'm not saying that

But this whole notion of not being able to win games without Ben is a joke. We have won with scrubs.. we made it to 2 AFCCG's with Kordell.

Why does any discussion with Ben lead to bashing the past or bashing the other QB's who people consider are better than Ben?

Ben is a beast but umm... we have some pretty good players on D too and our WR's and RB aren't that bad either.