BA officially outta here!

[feltdizz]

Re: BA officially outta here!

I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

I strongly disagree. 60/40 pass/run ratio is the exact definition of NOT balanced.


Rockon

Like it or not though, this IS a passing league these days. Cripes, it's so easy to score these days that time of possession almost doesn't matter. People need to get out of the mindset that running the ball more will solve our problems.

The key is execution: knowing when to pass or run, and being able to do it when needed. We couldn't do it, and THAT was why I loathed BA.

I disagree. The two teams ahead of us in the AFCN won by running the football with some authority.

I hate how people make it sound like running more means benching Ben...
it helps Ben to run more as well.. less sacks, less WR miscommunication for INT's and better OL confidence...

I just came to the conclusion Ben had BA in his pocket... plus screaming for more runs brought the dreaded "passing league" term.

[feltdizz]

Re: BA officially outta here!

I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

BA did some very good things. He was a pretty good game plan guy. He spread the field out and finally gave Ben a vote of confidence he felt he never got from Cowher and Whiz. He allowed Ben to spread things out and really brought the best out of Holmes, Wallace, and Heath.

His red zone offense, in game adjustments, and running play design (our best running plays were the ones from coordinators past) were poor.

BA let Ben do whatever he wanted.. and while we love what Ben can do.. he also does some stupid things like taking red zone sacks on 1st down or 2nd down..

or out of the empty set that Ben has to love because we run it so much, Ben still holding the ball like he has protection and time..

Ben is a beast but he frustrated Whiz and Cowher to no end the the sandlot ball... but it works for Ben more times then not. However when it doesn't work we shrug it off as Ben being Ben or BA being an idiot..

with the official report now in... prepare for Ben to have a "who the hell knows" kinda year.

I dont' care who the OC is for the Steelers Ben is not changing the way he plays the game. Maybe they'll hire Kevin Gilbride. :P

Pappy

I would love another Whiz type who limits Ben's attempts a little but I wonder if Ben would go for it at this point in his career or butt heads.

[papillon]

Re: BA officially outta here!

I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

BA did some very good things. He was a pretty good game plan guy. He spread the field out and finally gave Ben a vote of confidence he felt he never got from Cowher and Whiz. He allowed Ben to spread things out and really brought the best out of Holmes, Wallace, and Heath.

His red zone offense, in game adjustments, and running play design (our best running plays were the ones from coordinators past) were poor.

BA let Ben do whatever he wanted.. and while we love what Ben can do.. he also does some stupid things like taking red zone sacks on 1st down or 2nd down..

or out of the empty set that Ben has to love because we run it so much, Ben still holding the ball like he has protection and time..

Ben is a beast but he frustrated Whiz and Cowher to no end the the sandlot ball... but it works for Ben more times then not. However when it doesn't work we shrug it off as Ben being Ben or BA being an idiot..

with the official report now in... prepare for Ben to have a "who the hell knows" kinda year.

I dont' care who the OC is for the Steelers Ben is not changing the way he plays the game. Maybe they'll hire Kevin Gilbride. :P

Pappy

I would love another Whiz type who limits Ben's attempts a little but I wonder if Ben would go for it at this point in his career or butt heads.

I would love for Ben's attempts to be limited. His YPA is so high there is no reason for him to just lock and load as foten as he did. Now with Mendenhall emerging there really isn't any reason not to cut back on Ben;s attempts.

I will say this though, I wouldn't cut back in the first half of games. I'd establish Ben with a 60/40 mix of pass to run to get the lead hopefully and then turn it over to the offensive line and Mendy. Then the threat of Ben makes it easier to run out of passing formations and vice versa. This was the recipe in 2004 and 2005.

Of course, this strategy will rely on the defense to actually show up and play in the second half of games.

Pappy

[BDESteel]

Re: BA officially outta here!

It's on PFT as well, but so far everything is referencing Laird, and nothing official from the team.

[url]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/[/url]

Report: Bruce Arians will be fired in Pittsburgh
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 5, 2010 2:47 PM ET
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. Somehow, we doubt Arians would have been criticized as much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Steelers quarterback coach Ken Anderson retired earlier in the day.

Only thing I heard on Sirius is that Ken Anderson retired as well, nothing about Arians yet in the "mainstream".

it's on KDKA's home page.. it would be real janky to put that up if it's not true.

Ha ha ha! You said Janky. I thought that was a west coast term.

About Arians, so many threads have been written all year about how horrible BA was at calling plays. Then when he gets dumped there's people coming outta the wood works to defend him. I don't get it. He was fired for the same reasons we all hated him for and I can't wait to see the kind of offense we have next year.

Ben is an all star and can adjust to a few changes. Getting the running game back is big in my opinion.

[SteelBucks]

Re: BA officially outta here!

It's on PFT as well, but so far everything is referencing Laird, and nothing official from the team.

[url]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/[/url]

Report: Bruce Arians will be fired in Pittsburgh
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 5, 2010 2:47 PM ET
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. Somehow, we doubt Arians would have been criticized as much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Steelers quarterback coach Ken Anderson retired earlier in the day.

Only thing I heard on Sirius is that Ken Anderson retired as well, nothing about Arians yet in the "mainstream".

it's on KDKA's home page.. it would be real janky to put that up if it's not true.

KDKA also reported a few years ago that Russ Grimm was hired as HC over Tomlin. I'll wait for the official report from the team before I start doing my happy dance!

[proudpittsburgher]

Re: BA officially outta here!

I hate how people make it sound like running more means benching Ben...
it helps Ben to run more as well.. less sacks, less WR miscommunication for INT's and better OL confidence...

As has been the debate ad nauseum on here, you take the good with the bad. Less sacks yes, but less big plays when things fall apart. Less WR miscommunication . . . hell, what, that happened on two plays over 17 games this season? And the offensive line which has been maturing over this season alone and which has been worked on to become a pretty good pass-blocking O-line now has to switch it over and concentrate more on the run.

I see a new OC as taking a step back initially to possibly, and notice I said possibly because nothing is a given, take a few steps foward down the road. And exactly how much of an opne window do we have with an aging defense?

[feltdizz]

Re: BA officially outta here!

It's on PFT as well, but so far everything is referencing Laird, and nothing official from the team.

[url]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/05/report-bruce-arians-will-be-fired-in-pittsburgh/[/url]

Report: Bruce Arians will be fired in Pittsburgh
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 5, 2010 2:47 PM ET
The makeover in Pittsburgh is reportedly underway.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be let go "in the near future," according to Ken Laird of 1250 ESPN in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers have not confirmed the move, and Mike Tomlin didn't mention the change at his end of his season press conference.

Arians was criticized for not building a consistent running attack in Pittsburgh, but the passing game was among the league's best. Somehow, we doubt Arians would have been criticized as much if the Pittsburgh defense didn't give up 101 more points in 2009 than 2008.

Steelers quarterback coach Ken Anderson retired earlier in the day.

Only thing I heard on Sirius is that Ken Anderson retired as well, nothing about Arians yet in the "mainstream".

it's on KDKA's home page.. it would be real janky to put that up if it's not true.

Ha ha ha! You said Janky. I thought that was a west coast term.

About Arians, so many threads have been written all year about how horrible BA was at calling plays. Then when he gets dumped there's people coming outta the wood works to defend him. I don't get it. He was fired for the same reasons we all hated him for and I can't wait to see the kind of offense we have next year.

Ben is an all star and can adjust to a few changes. Getting the running game back is big in my opinion.

It is... I got it from listening to Pharcyde.... and I have a few friends from San Jose and LA..

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Re: BA officially outta here!

I dont know, there were plenty of games where we were pretty well balanced, he called up some nice trick plays this year to keep teams on their heels, and if santonio throws a td in the miami game we all love the call instead we say it was stupid......i dont think he was that bad...

I strongly disagree. 60/40 pass/run ratio is the exact definition of NOT balanced.


Rockon

Like it or not though, this IS a passing league these days. Cripes, it's so easy to score these days that time of possession almost doesn't matter. People need to get out of the mindset that running the ball more will solve our problems.

The key is execution: knowing when to pass or run, and being able to do it when needed. We couldn't do it, and THAT was why I loathed BA.

I disagree. The two teams ahead of us in the AFCN won by running the football with some authority.

I hate how people make it sound like running more means benching Ben...
it helps Ben to run more as well.. less sacks, less WR miscommunication for INT's and better OL confidence...

I just came to the conclusion Ben had BA in his pocket... plus screaming for more runs brought the dreaded "passing league" term.

Wasn't trying to imply we handcuff Ben and go the Run, Run, Pass offense. First off, I don't think we can do that. Our interior linemen are too crappy to even attempt to do that. We would be 3 and out again.

I think we need to really work on having an intermediate passing game. More designed short passes to our RB's, TE's, and WR's. Let them make plays with their legs. Arians offense was too much geared to the all or nothing approach. It seemed, at least to me, we were either always throwing stay patterns out in the flats from the bunch formation or gunning it 10+ yds downfield. I would love to see Holmes used more in the Wes Welker type of role where he turns a quick 5 yard pass into a big gainer by making one guy miss. I would love to see a little Kevin Faulk type RB brought in to go in the no huddle type offense or quick offense and on 3rd down. Officially I think Mendenhall would be good at this but he has dropped too many damn passes. We need sure handed players. Not even sure Holmes could fill a Welker type role. Welker catches EVERYTHING in reach.

In the end I don't think Arians offense was ideal for playing on a natural grass field that turns to crap and throwing the ball 15 yards downfield consistently in December isn't ideal for northern teams.

I also don't think with the interior linemen we have expecting the run, run pass offense to work is ideal at this time either. Mendenhall needs to work on his hands so we can run or pass with the same players on the field so teams don't know whats coming.

[papillon]

Re: BA officially outta here!

Doesn't the new OC almost have to continue a similar offense? Starks, Kemo and Hartwig are all signed at a minimum through 2012 and they have been pass blocking for 2 years now. How much of a change can you expect and the offense still be effective?

Pappy

[feltdizz]

Re: BA officially outta here!

I hate how people make it sound like running more means benching Ben...
it helps Ben to run more as well.. less sacks, less WR miscommunication for INT's and better OL confidence...

As has been the debate ad nauseum on here, you take the good with the bad. Less sacks yes, but less big plays when things fall apart. Less WR miscommunication . . . hell, what, that happened on two plays over 17 games this season? And the offensive line which has been maturing over this season alone and which has been worked on to become a pretty good pass-blocking O-line now has to switch it over and concentrate more on the run.

I see a new OC as taking a step back initially to possibly, and notice I said possibly because nothing is a given, take a few steps foward down the road. And exactly how much of an opne window do we have with an aging defense?

WR communication happens any time a WR is 4 yards from the ball... I'm not talking game changing play, just plays over the course of a season.

50 sacks is not pretty good.. it's horrible. In fairness Ben will always take sacks...
This team is still a much better run blocking team if we committed to it more often.

how many big plays are lost by running instead of passing? Who knows? How do we know if Mend won't bust off a few good runs that show the holes in the other teams D...
or set up a big play pass without having to trade another 4 experimental sacks/incompletions that stop clock or kill drives?

All I'm saying is there is room for both.. we won 15 straight games with a run heavy O..
Sometimes Ben threw 15 to 20 passes, had 150 to 220 yards and 2 TD's.. he was still making big plays..

[SteelAbility]

Re: BA officially outta here!

well, now we get to bash the new OC and see if he can rescue the D...

I'm thinking Troy alone will rescue the D. A. Smith won't hurt either.

[feltdizz]

Re: BA officially outta here!

well, now we get to bash the new OC and see if he can rescue the D...

I'm thinking Troy alone will rescue the D. A. Smith won't hurt either.

Troy will... not too sure about Smith being able to put in a whole season.

Both are injury prone though... so we have to be realistic about what happens if they go down again.

[feltdizz]

Re: BA officially outta here!

it's on KDKA's home page.. it would be real janky to put that up if it's not true.

KDKA also reported a few years ago that Russ Grimm was hired as HC over Tomlin. I'll wait for the official report from the team before I start doing my happy dance! [/quote]

Damn.. I almost forgot about that.. so KDKA reports what they want and hope it sticks..

Guess I'll wait too.

[ghettoscott]

Re: BA officially outta here!

It is... I got it from listening to Pharcyde.... ..

Great album...

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Re: BA officially outta here!

Doesn't the new OC almost have to continue a similar offense? Starks, Kemo and Hartwig are all signed at a minimum through 2012 and they have been pass blocking for 2 years now. How much of a change can you expect and the offense still be effective?

Pappy

I posted a little above yours in this thread I do think we need to keep passing the football because our interior linemen can't runblock well at all. Hartwig isn't a good C and Stapleton & Essex are just fatbodies. Hartings and Faneca they are not.

Arians offense was too 'all or nothing'.....we need an OC with some imagination to incorporate our RB-TE-WR in a short passing attack to compliment the longer stuff. This will help our OL out so they don't have to hold their blocks forever. It will also put more of the pressure on our big money, high pick players to make plays with the football. How many times have you seen a QB throw a 5 yard completion to a WR-RB-TE against our D this season just to see one guy miss a tackle and all the sudden that 5 yard pass is a 15 yard gain?

I think in Arians offense we would bring everyone in to help block on 3rd & 5 but in the offense I envision, everyone goes out for the pass.

Ideally, we get this type of offense going while we try and either draft some better C & OG or Shipley, Foster, Urbick, Legursky emerge as good interior linemen.

Legursky intrigues me as a pulling guard for some reason. He is notoriously powerful and strong and I was reading he is freakishly fast for his size. I read he ran a 4.8 40yds. Just an idea. Put him at RG and keep Kemo at LG and have either one of them pull to lead the way.