CLE PD: Steelers "Luck Running Out"

[Northern_Blitz]

Last 10 SB winners run/pass ratios.

Doesn't look so great for the 'run heavy' teams in the last several years

Yr	Team	Run%	Pass%	Run%_Rank
2022	KC	39	61	29th
2021	LAR	40.9	59.1	24th
2020	TB	37.1	62.9	30th
2019	KC	39.4	60.6	24th
2018	NE	45.4	54.6	9th
2017	PHI	45.6	54.4	11th
2016	NE	46.7	53.3	5th
2015	DEN	40.4	59.6	18th
2014	NE	41.8	58.2	18th
2013	SEA	54.8	45.2	1st

I think most of these "what did SB winners" type stats say is that you need to have a really good QB. And then have a team around them that is above average.

Hopefully KP develops into that. Because I think we have an above average D. We will also need some significant growth out of the young talent on O we've used good draft capital on IMO.

[NJ-STEELER]

I'm not going to look it up, but iirc, p.

can you point to an OC / DC that was hired as coach who had his area of coaching be last in the league?

OC - someone with a rushing attack that was last in the league, passing offence last in the year

[whisper]

can you point to an OC / DC that was hired as coach who had his area of coaching be last in the league?

OC - someone with a rushing attack that was last in the league, passing offence last in the year

Are you leading to something with this question?

[WindyCitySteel]

I think most of these "what did SB winners" type stats say is that you need to have a really good QB. And then have a team around them that is above average.

Hopefully KP develops into that. Because I think we have an above average D. We will also need some significant growth out of the young talent on O we've used good draft capital on IMO.

Let's take a look at these past ten champs and see how many took a path the Steelers might be able to follow this season. To me, those are the ones who won primarily on defense with a little clutch offense:

2013 Seahawks -- Never allowed more than 17 in playoffs, had first round bye.
2015 Broncos -- Never allowed more than 18, again with a bye.

That's it -- the rest had to win a high-scoring shootout at some point. And both of those are ancient history, before the AFC had Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Lawrence, Watson, etc.

If the Steelers chose Pickett to be nothing more than a Neil O'Donnell and hope for a resurgence of 1990's style football to bring them a championship, they're perhaps the most misguided, out of touch franchise in sports and have probably set their ceiling to First Round Exit for the foreseeable future.

He can't just be a game manager, he needs to be special, and he doesn't exactly have Sean Peyton or Bill Walsh designing his offense for him.

[feltdizz]

Let's take a look at these past ten champs and see how many took a path the Steelers might be able to follow this season. To me, those are the ones who won primarily on defense with a little clutch offense:

2013 Seahawks -- Never allowed more than 17 in playoffs, had first round bye.
2015 Broncos -- Never allowed more than 18, again with a bye.

That's it -- the rest had to win a high-scoring shootout at some point. And both of those are ancient history, before the AFC had Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Lawrence, Watson, etc.

If the Steelers chose Pickett to be nothing more than a Neil O'Donnell and hope for a resurgence of 1990's style football to bring them a championship, they're perhaps the most misguided, out of touch franchise in sports and have probably set their ceiling to First Round Exit for the foreseeable future.

He can't just be a game manager, he needs to be special, and he doesn't exactly have Sean Peyton or Bill Walsh designing his offense for him.

If Kenny gets us to an AFCCG and a SB in the next few years how can anyone be mad at THAT type of handling by the coaching staff?

and I think if O’Donnell signed with us many he gets a ring and has a totally different ending to his career.

I actually think Kenny IS special but I’m a homer and a Pitt fan. He did what I never thought possible. He made me a believer in Pitt winning games they typically would lose.. lol.

Those last minute wins.. that was special and he is going to build on it this season. Dude is just getting started.

[Northern_Blitz]

Let's take a look at these past ten champs and see how many took a path the Steelers might be able to follow this season. To me, those are the ones who won primarily on defense with a little clutch offense:

2013 Seahawks -- Never allowed more than 17 in playoffs, had first round bye.
2015 Broncos -- Never allowed more than 18, again with a bye.

That's it -- the rest had to win a high-scoring shootout at some point. And both of those are ancient history, before the AFC had Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Lawrence, Watson, etc.

If the Steelers chose Pickett to be nothing more than a Neil O'Donnell and hope for a resurgence of 1990's style football to bring them a championship, they're perhaps the most misguided, out of touch franchise in sports and have probably set their ceiling to First Round Exit for the foreseeable future.

He can't just be a game manager, he needs to be special, and he doesn't exactly have Sean Peyton or Bill Walsh designing his offense for him.

Does anyone think that the Steelers are going to win the SB this year? IMO expectations have to be different now that we don't have a HoF QB...no matter what the FO says about trying to compete for a championship every year.

IMO this is a year where we the main goal should be developing KP. So should every season until either the end of his rookie deal or he's already an above average QB.

I think it makes sense to start doing this in an offense that doesn't demand too much of him (last year). Then gradually increases the importance of QB play over time as the QB gets better (hopefully this season...arguably by the end of this season).

I agree that KP can't just be a game manager and needs to be special to win a SB. But the "needs to be special" part is often a thing that gets tagged onto a guy after they win. And you don't have to be special by leading the league in yards or TDs. You can be special like Ben was special early in his career too. Or like Wilson was when he won. Or like Nick Foles. Or Eli Manning. Or you can just get hot at the right time like Flacco did.

Of course, you'd rather have someone as supremely talented at Brady or Mahomes to win a SB. But you only get to play with the guys you have on the roster. And I don't think forcing KP to do things he's not good at yet is going to make him into an elite player any more than relying on him less than the running game will. It will happen or it won't...although as I've said many times, I wish we were running the experiment with a better OC.

Aside: I don't know why you think NOD was a game manager (he had ~ 3000 yards in 12 starts the year we went to the SB...and that was 1995 when passing was a lot harder to do IMO). That offense was one of the most creative offenses I think we've ever had and he ran it pretty well (with the SB game being an obviously poor game). I'd love to have an offense that creative now.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

can you point to an OC / DC that was hired as coach who had his area of coaching be last in the league?

OC - someone with a rushing attack that was last in the league, passing offence last in the year

that was so long ago, I had to dig to see what this was referring to.

It was this:

I'm not going to look it up, but iirc, their defensive ranking jumped like 15 spots the one year he was DC...

That as context, what I think you were calling attention to is this:

that's not what happened here. its obvious there were other factors involved.... ie the rooney rule

Which I already responded to with this:

right because the other guys have been such good head coaches, they clearly passed on better coaches to choose based on "other factors"... at this point, that whole argument seems silly...

You've heard the man speak. Why is it so hard to believe that he simply interviewed better than the other guys, who felt they were just going to be given the job and likely gave less effort?

I know that we've grown tired of some of his Tomlinisms at this point, but when he was hired, he had me ready to suit up.

This part above is especially true

But the guy made his name in the league as a DC. Do you think this team is the worst defense in the league? I'm looking around for Ashton to tell me I've been Punk'd

Moreover, how he REALLY made his name is as a motivator of men... Hearing guys like John Lynch, Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber talk about how quickly he earned their respect. I have no doubts that he went in that room and sold himself.

While I'm sure it's the case that some people get jobs due to quota (was that your story as well?)... I struggle to understand how some think that every minority only ever gets a job because of such a thing. It's very telling about how you feel.

Every time I think I'd sit down and have a beer with you, you try to talk me out of it.

[NJ-STEELER]

that was so long ago, I had to dig to see what this was referring to.

It was this:


That as context, what I think you were calling attention to is this:


Which I already responded to with this:

This part above is especially true

But the guy made his name in the league as a DC. Do you think this team is the worst defense in the league? I'm looking around for Ashton to tell me I've been Punk'd

Moreover, how he REALLY made his name is as a motivator of men... Hearing guys like John Lynch, Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber talk about how quickly he earned their respect. I have no doubts that he went in that room and sold himself.

While I'm sure it's the case that some people get jobs due to quota (was that your story as well?)... I struggle to understand how some think that every minority only ever gets a job because of such a thing. It's very telling about how you feel.

Every time I think I'd sit down and have a beer with you, you try to talk me out of it.

ALL THAT WITHOUT TRYING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.
(sorry for the caps)

he "made it" as a DC in this league ?? he was DC for 1 year with his pass defense ranking last in the league.

i can buy the bull$hit of your explanation of why he was hired in 2007. rooney seemed to buy it back then too.
how's he "led his team" since the guys held onto as the DC and OC position have left. the guys he was told to leave in place if he wanted the head coaching job.
since their departure, what's out playoff record?


and since you didn't answer it above i'll ask again. do you recall any OC/DC getting a head coaching job where his unit was last in the league in a particular category?

[feltdizz]

Does anyone think that the Steelers are going to win the SB this year? IMO expectations have to be different now that we don't have a HoF QB...no matter what the FO says about trying to compete for a championship every year.

IMO this is a year where we the main goal should be developing KP. So should every season until either the end of his rookie deal or he's already an above average QB.

I think it makes sense to start doing this in an offense that doesn't demand too much of him (last year). Then gradually increases the importance of QB play over time as the QB gets better (hopefully this season...arguably by the end of this season).

I agree that KP can't just be a game manager and needs to be special to win a SB. But the "needs to be special" part is often a thing that gets tagged onto a guy after they win. And you don't have to be special by leading the league in yards or TDs. You can be special like Ben was special early in his career too. Or like Wilson was when he won. Or like Nick Foles. Or Eli Manning. Or you can just get hot at the right time like Flacco did.

Of course, you'd rather have someone as supremely talented at Brady or Mahomes to win a SB. But you only get to play with the guys you have on the roster. And I don't think forcing KP to do things he's not good at yet is going to make him into an elite player any more than relying on him less than the running game will. It will happen or it won't...although as I've said many times, I wish we were running the experiment with a better OC.

Aside: I don't know why you think NOD was a game manager (he had ~ 3000 yards in 12 starts the year we went to the SB...and that was 1995 when passing was a lot harder to do IMO). That offense was one of the most creative offenses I think we've ever had and he ran it pretty well (with the SB game being an obviously poor game). I'd love to have an offense that creative now.

Brady was not some gunslinger his first few years in the league.

IMO he’s never been a Mahommes type QB wowing people with his arm. He’s efficient n

[feltdizz]

that was so long ago, I had to dig to see what this was referring to.

It was this:


That as context, what I think you were calling attention to is this:


Which I already responded to with this:

This part above is especially true

But the guy made his name in the league as a DC. Do you think this team is the worst defense in the league? I'm looking around for Ashton to tell me I've been Punk'd

Moreover, how he REALLY made his name is as a motivator of men... Hearing guys like John Lynch, Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber talk about how quickly he earned their respect. I have no doubts that he went in that room and sold himself.

While I'm sure it's the case that some people get jobs due to quota (was that your story as well?)... I struggle to understand how some think that every minority only ever gets a job because of such a thing. It's very telling about how you feel.

Every time I think I'd sit down and have a beer with you, you try to talk me out of it.

Tomlin was only a DC for one year.

What I think people forget is his mentor is Tony Dungee. That played a huge role in his getting hired. Of course as soon as he starts talking you realize he has that gift of gab to motivate men. We clearly wanted a young HC too.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

ALL THAT WITHOUT TRYING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.
(sorry for the caps)

he "made it" as a DC in this league ?? he was DC for 1 year with his pass defense ranking last in the league.

i can buy the bull$hit of your explanation of why he was hired in 2007. rooney seemed to buy it back then too.
how's he "led his team" since the guys held onto as the DC and OC position have left. the guys he was told to leave in place if he wanted the head coaching job
since their departure, what's out playoff record?


and since you didn't answer it above i'll ask again. do you recall any OC/DC getting a head coaching job where his unit was last in the league in a particular category?

In this case, I wasn't ignoring.

I didn't realize he had a last place defense... when was that? I seriously don't recall a Steelers defense every being LAST. Or are we talking when he was with the Vikes?

So to answer your question. NO, I don't recall it in any case.