Ravens are a problem

[Northern_Blitz]

I’m not discounting LJ’s season at all. He’s been electric. I just can’t move past why a QB with that skill set hasn’t won Super Bowls in the past. Maybe he’ll be the first? I just give deference to the last 50 years and feel like I need to see it first before I’m all in on the kid. After all he’s only one ACL (RGIII) from a big problem.

I’m not wishing an injury upon him, I love great play. But I’m keeping my powder dry for now.

I think it's maybe 2 things:
1) It's hard to win SBs and
2) The elite running QB skill set probably drops off more quickly than elite passing (just like RBs have short careers).

Point (2) means that elite passing QBs get more kicks at the can than elite running QBs.

P.Manning may be the best passer the league has ever seen. He played for 18 years (minus 1 for the neck injury) and won SBs in years 9 and 18.

If running QBs have much shorter careers (maybe 7 - 9 years), then maybe that's why they don't win.

If I had an elite running QB, I think my plan would be to keep him for 2 contracts and then let him go. Maybe this is the way of the future since my guess is that running skill is easier to scout / evaluate than passing skill (since QBs are the hardest position to scout in the NFL).

Marino would also be in the discussion for best passer ever. Made 1 SB appearance with no victories. And he never had to play against Brady. He did have to play against Jim Kelly though. Another elite passer with no SB victories (because the Cowboys were great at the time).

[flippy]

I’m not discounting LJ’s season at all. He’s been electric. I just can’t move past why a QB with that skill set hasn’t won Super Bowls in the past. Maybe he’ll be the first? I just give deference to the last 50 years and feel like I need to see it first before I’m all in on the kid. After all he’s only one ACL (RGIII) from a big problem.

I’m not wishing an injury upon him, I love great play. But I’m keeping my powder dry for now.

What's his skillset? Being mobile?

Guys like Russel Wilson, Steve Young, and many others have been mobile and successful. There are a lot of others that have made it to the SuperBowl and lost. I don't think mobile means not a good QB. And the guys that are great QBs that are mobile get labeled as regular QBs eventually.

[Starlifter]

Good points - especially about Marino. I’m still gonna hold back a year or two and see what develops. For the Steelers sake I hope I’m correct!

[Starlifter]

What's his skillset? Being mobile?

Guys like Russel Wilson, Steve Young, and many others have been mobile and successful. There are a lot of others that have made it to the SuperBowl and lost. I don't think mobile means not a good QB. And the guys that are great QBs that are mobile get labeled as regular QBs eventually.

Is there a difference between being mobile and a rushing QB? maybe, maybe not. If you look at the top 10 QB’s rushing, only Steve Young has won a championship. You can get lower to Russel Wilson, roger staubauch and some others. I don’t know how to differentiate nor define it. We’ll see what happens!

[Oh wow]

What's his skillset? Being mobile?

Guys like Russel Wilson, Steve Young, and many others have been mobile and successful. There are a lot of others that have made it to the SuperBowl and lost. I don't think mobile means not a good QB. And the guys that are great QBs that are mobile get labeled as regular QBs eventually.

Exactly. Lamar just tossed 4 or 5 TD’s last night. He isn’t going to have 400 yard games in the air but his ability to move the chains, extend plays and pass the ball efficiently is scary right now.

I’m time I think more teams will adjust and figure out his tendencies like with Cam early on.

The difference is the supporting cast for the Ravens seems like a perfect fit for him.

The whole “winning SB’s” isn’t really my concern. My concern is this team preventing US from winning SB’s or making the playoffs.

[Oh wow]

I’m not discounting LJ’s season at all. He’s been electric. I just can’t move past why a QB with that skill set hasn’t won Super Bowls in the past. Maybe he’ll be the first? I just give deference to the last 50 years and feel like I need to see it first before I’m all in on the kid. After all he’s only one ACL (RGIII) from a big problem.

I’m not wishing an injury upon him, I love great play. But I’m keeping my powder dry for now.

I don’t think you have to be all in. Hell, I’m hoping we figure out how to continue to make him look bad like in our first game.

My issue is the whole SB argument.

Right now, who is closer to winning a SB or trending in the right direction between Lamar and Mason?

Until you find the perfect franchise pocket passer at QB I think it’s best to have anything at QB who gives you a shot to make the playoffs vs having a QB who looks the part on paper but sucks during the game.

[NorthCoast]

Is there a difference between being mobile and a rushing QB? maybe, maybe not. If you look at the top 10 QB’s rushing, only Steve Young has won a championship. You can get lower to Russel Wilson, roger staubauch and some others. I don’t know how to differentiate nor define it. We’ll see what happens!

I think the difference is the playcalling. A mobile QB doesn't run by design, but by necessity.

[Starlifter]

I think the difference is the playcalling. A mobile QB doesn't run by design, but by necessity.

I agree with this.

[whatever]

I'm glad that you agree with me.

My point has always been that talent > coaching.

The argument I didn't agree with that that a coach should be able to take less talented players and get great results in their area of specialty.

McVay can't get a great O with sub-standard talent. Just like Tomlin couldn't get great play out of a bad secondary and an ILB off the couch.

I was mostly kidding.
Its not that hard to be a good coach with a loaded roster
Its when you have a loaded roster and you cant win or make the playoffs is my issue.

[Northern_Blitz]

I was mostly kidding.
Its not that hard to be a good coach with a loaded roster
Its when you have a loaded roster and you cant win or make the playoffs is my issue.

The Rams are loaded on one side of the ball.

Just like we were when we played Jax.

The difference is we were great on O and they are great on D. Opposite of the "specialties" of the HCs.

[papillon]

What's his skillset? Being mobile?

Guys like Russel Wilson, Steve Young, and many others have been mobile and successful. There are a lot of others that have made it to the SuperBowl and lost. I don't think mobile means not a good QB. And the guys that are great QBs that are mobile get labeled as regular QBs eventually.

I don't think LJ is mobile (well, he's mobile but he's more than that), he is a threat running the football, the offense has plays that are designed to specifically use his "running" ability not his mobility. A young Ben was mobile, Brett Favre was mobile, Aaron Rogers is mobile, Russell Wilson is mobile, etc. Mobility and running ability are two vastly different things. The Ravens offense actually relies on LJ being able to gain yards on the ground from designed plays. I didn't count last night but my guess is that there were at least 10 plays designed for him to run and he gained 95 yards, that's significant.

Just my take
Pappy

[papillon]

Exactly. Lamar just tossed 4 or 5 TD’s last night. He isn’t going to have 400 yard games in the air but his ability to move the chains, extend plays and pass the ball efficiently is scary right now.

I’m time I think more teams will adjust and figure out his tendencies like with Cam early on.

The difference is the supporting cast for the Ravens seems like a perfect fit for him.

The whole “winning SB’s” isn’t really my concern. My concern is this team preventing US from winning SB’s or making the playoffs.

Ingram was the key last night, he was gouging them for yards and then LJ gouged them for yards on the ground, when LJ dropped back to pass receives were open, he had time, because of the threat of running the football. For an NFL quarterback, last night is as easy as it will get to be efficient passing the ball because the running game was killing it.

Pappy

[Northern_Blitz]

Ingram was the key last night, he was gouging them for yards and then LJ gouged them for yards on the ground, when LJ dropped back to pass receives were open, he had time, because of the threat of running the football. For an NFL quarterback, last night is as easy as it will get to be efficient passing the ball because the running game was killing it.

Pappy

I think this is a great observation.

I also think it says something about balance. I don't think it's about equal run pass ratio. It's about keeping the D honest so they have to worry about the run and the pass.

[flippy]

I don't think LJ is mobile (well, he's mobile but he's more than that), he is a threat running the football, the offense has plays that are designed to specifically use his "running" ability not his mobility. A young Ben was mobile, Brett Favre was mobile, Aaron Rogers is mobile, Russell Wilson is mobile, etc. Mobility and running ability are two vastly different things. The Ravens offense actually relies on LJ being able to gain yards on the ground from designed plays. I didn't count last night but my guess is that there were at least 10 plays designed for him to run and he gained 95 yards, that's significant.

Just my take
Pappy

I’ll give that LJ is a running QB like none before him. But to the original point, Russel Wilson ran for 849 yards in a season and he’s won a SuperBowl.

That’s more yards than Cam Newton has ever had. The only QB I can think of that’s ran for more is probably Vick.

LJ deserves his own category. I wanted the Steelers to take him and thought he was the best QB in his class by a lot. I’m bummed the Ravens have him. We match up pretty well defensively, but he’s still a monster on the ground. Just ask TJ how hard he is to take down. I remember TJ getting swatted like he was a gnat by LJ’s stiff arm.

The other point I was trying to make is LJ won’t be considered a running QB if he’s consistently throwing for 400+ yards. Like a lot of other guys, he’s a running QB now until he develops completely at the position. And to some degree it sure seems like he might already be there.

[NJ-STEELER]

I’m not discounting LJ’s season at all. He’s been electric. I just can’t move past why a QB with that skill set hasn’t won Super Bowls in the past. Maybe he’ll be the first? I just give deference to the last 50 years and feel like I need to see it first before I’m all in on the kid. After all he’s only one ACL (RGIII) from a big problem.

I’m not wishing an injury upon him, I love great play. But I’m keeping my powder dry for now.

I like to see them go against a good defense that can stop the run (SF this week?) before I put them as a legit SB contender. that said, He's passing it much better then the 3 passes completed (in 3 qrs) playoff game at home last year vs. san diego and some iffy games he's had earlier this season.
for the life of me, I can't figure out why a defense hasn't tried to T off on him when he runs that option play. He's not protected under the QB rules when they run that play.
Hopefully hairball calls more of them ; )