Fire Mike Tomlin

[Captain Lemming]

Yes, I think most people would be shocked at hiring someone with that resume. People were surprised with the Cowher hire.

Really. Would ANYBODY be shocked if it was Grimm? Everybody thought he was gonna be the guy.

Both Cowher and Tomlin were defensive coaches. The difference is, Cowher usually always had strong defenses (Blitzburg). Tomlin, the man who you say presided over the greatest secondary in history, has failed miserably with that here.

First of all, you made the ridiculous assertion that if he were white his “resume” would not get him hired. I made no case in this thread about after the hire, even went out of my way to make that clear.
Besides Tomlin the only guy left taught fat guys to block.

As Ruthless points out, Tomlins experience is TYPICAL in today’s NFL.

Point is, if you hire a defensive coach, you expect a good defense. Vice versa for an offensive-minded coach. Tomlin did have a good D his first few years (with Cowhers players, Lebeau, etc), but has sucked since. He was also given a HOF QB in the prime of his career.

But I will “go there” if you insist.

Cowher coached Cowhers players for years.
Two seasons after Cowher, Tomlin takes Cowhers 20th defense to a level NEVER ACHIEVED under Cowher.

The best Steeler defenses since Noll were coached by Tomlin NOT Cowher.
That is a fact Jack.

Imagine some hot shot kid replaced Tomlin and Burns and Davis thrive with the best pass defense in the league? You gonna say it was Tomlins players or the new coach?
Be honest. You know the answer.

As I said, I don't think it was necessarily a mistake to hire him.

Then just admit your initial point that I-took issue with was wrong.

I think it's been a huge mistake not to fire him (and the entire staff) after Jacksonville (possibly even Denver)

I think a time comes when most coaches rhetoric loses its power. Should he be fired after disappointing this year I’d agree.
It happened to Noll.

But the idea that he had no resume’ deserving of consideration, or that he has no credit for success?

I don’t think so.

[Northern_Blitz]

Honest question. Tomlin was a DB coach, and a DC for a year. Seriously, do you think, if he were white, he would have been the hire?

Personally I think he probably turned out to be the best of those 3, but we'll never know. What we do know is for the last 9 years he's won 3 playoff games, has had a HOF QB, an offense littered with future HOFers, and has done nothing with it in the playoffs. Throw in his poor game management, players literally quitting, playoff disasters, etc. Can you honestly say Grimm or Whis would have lasted this long with that resume?

Yes.

His time as a position coach (slightly longer) and coordinator (slightly shorter) was similar to Cowher's.

Neither were hired to be Xs and Os coaches. They were hired for their passion and their ability to work with and motivate other people.

Tomlin is very similar to Cowher IMO.
It's totally not a surprise that we hired MT because he's just a younger version of our previous very successful coach (except for the obvious physical difference that neither of them has any control over).

[Northern_Blitz]

...

If Tomlin was a young white DC and got the job over an offensive line coach...

... Then he'd be Cowher.

[Oh wow]

... Then he'd be Cowher.

Exactly.

It kills me how people still complain about the Tomlin hire like Cowher was some well known coach at the time.

All 3 Steeler HC’s have at least 2 SB appearances and 1 ring yet folks want Tomlin fired because he was “handed” the job.

Smh...

[whatever]

Exactly.

It kills me how people still complain about the Tomlin hire like Cowher was some well known coach at the time.

All 3 Steeler HC’s have at least 2 SB appearances and 1 ring yet folks want Tomlin fired because he was “handed” the job.

Smh...

Aren't you the one that always cries, " name someone that you know will be better"?

[Terrapin]

Really. Would ANYBODY be shocked if it was Grimm? Everybody thought he was gonna be the guy.



First of all, you made the ridiculous assertion that if he were white his “resume” would not get him hired. I made no case in this thread about after the hire, even went out of my way to make that clear.
Besides Tomlin the only guy left taught fat guys to block.

As Ruthless points out, Tomlins experience is TYPICAL in today’s NFL.



But I will “go there” if you insist.

Cowher coached Cowhers players for years.
Two seasons after Cowher, Tomlin takes Cowhers 20th defense to a level NEVER ACHIEVED under Cowher.

The best Steeler defenses since Noll were coached by Tomlin NOT Cowher.
That is a fact Jack.

Imagine some hot shot kid replaced Tomlin and Burns and Davis thrive with the best pass defense in the league? You gonna say it was Tomlins players or the new coach?
Be honest. You know the answer.



Then just admit your initial point that I-took issue with was wrong.



I think a time comes when most coaches rhetoric loses its power. Should he be fired after disappointing this year I’d agree.
It happened to Noll.

But the idea that he had no resume’ deserving of consideration, or that he has no credit for success?

I don’t think so.

Nobody would have been surprised by Grimm or Whis, strictly because they were with the organization at the time. That's the difference. Nobody ever even heard of Tomlin.

1 year as a coordinator, where his defense was ranked last against the pass, with no ties to anyone in Pittsburgh, was obviously more than enough to get one of the most coveted coaching positions in all of sports?

[whatever]

Why in every workplace in America, people are hired/promoted based on race or sex but it can't possibly happen in the NFL?
Especially by a team that invented a hiring rule ....c'mon man. Don't be so naive.

[Oh wow]

Nobody would have been surprised by Grimm or Whis, strictly because they were with the organization at the time. That's the difference. Nobody ever even heard of Tomlin.

1 year as a coordinator, where his defense was ranked last against the pass, with no ties to anyone in Pittsburgh, was obviously more than enough to get one of the most coveted coaching positions in all of sports?

No one in Pittsburgh heard of Cowher when he was hired.

I think Joe Greene was interviewed as well.

I remember a lot of people said “who???” when we hired Cowher.

I know I did.

I think our next coach will also be someone we aren’t familiar with who is from outside the organization.

We probably don’t hire from within because it gives our FO an advantage in molding our coaches into our way of operating.

[Oh wow]

Why in every workplace in America, people are hired/promoted based on race or sex but it can't possibly happen in the NFL?
Especially by a team that invented a hiring rule ....c'mon man. Don't be so naive.

First off, it isn’t like that in every workplace. If you think it is then it says a lot about you as a person.

Second, Rivera was interviewed so we already fulfilled the Rooney Rule.

Third, Tomlin comes from the Dungy coaching tree so he had some respect on his name already.

4th, Tomlin had a ring already and coached Tampa’s secondary into a TD machine... that same coaching helped JH return an INT 100 yards in the SB. All the players talked about how Tomlin instilled them to block like maniacs anytime there was an INT.

5th, Tomlin has the gift of gab. Whether you like it or not you know damn well if he walked into an interview he would get the job because he is the ultimate salesman when it comes to “coach speak.”

6th.. he isn’t going anywhere until he’s gone so why continue to stress about it?

[NorthCoast]

First off, it isn’t like that in every workplace. If you think it is then it says a lot about you as a person.

Second, Rivera was interviewed so we already fulfilled the Rooney Rule.

Third, Tomlin comes from the Dungy coaching tree so he had some respect on his name already.

4th, Tomlin had a ring already and coached Tampa’s secondary into a TD machine... that same coaching helped JH return an INT 100 yards in the SB. All the players talked about how Tomlin instilled them to block like maniacs anytime there was an INT.

5th, Tomlin has the gift of gab. Whether you like it or not you know damn well if he walked into an interview he would get the job because he is the ultimate salesman when it comes to “coach speak.”

6th.. he isn’t going anywhere until he’s gone so why continue to stress about it?

Couldn't have said it better myself Dizz.

[Northern_Blitz]

No one in Pittsburgh heard of Cowher when he was hired.

I think Joe Greene was interviewed as well.

I remember a lot of people said “who???” when we hired Cowher.

I know I did.

I think our next coach will also be someone we aren’t familiar with who is from outside the organization.

We probably don’t hire from within because it gives our FO an advantage in molding our coaches into our way of operating.

I hate the "Rooney Rule" argument because it doesn't stand up if you look at anything outside of Tomlin's skin color.

His hire is almost exactly the same as Cowher's. Both promising, young, passionate coaches moving up the coaching ranks mentored by very good coaches that probably gave them strong recommendations despite them not having lots of experience.

I guess the biggest difference would be that Tomlin's recommendation came from Dungy. He's a guy who won a ring with us (led the team in Ints in a SB season), then coached our DBs, then was promoted to our DC. He later became a HC for Indy and was Tomlin's employer. So, his "ties to Pittsburgh" were that he's part of the 2nd generation of Noll's coaching tree and directly trained by a guy who was part of the Steel Curtain. I'm sure that the Rooneys put a lot of faith in that recommendation (another perk of having an ownership group that players respect).

But even this isn't super different from Cowher. Though his contributions to the Steelers weren't nearly what Dungy's were, Marty did get a cup of coffee of the Steelers roster in 71 (before being traded again that season and ultimately retiring to pursue coaching).

And in hindsight, it's OBVIOUS that Tomlin was the best choice of the three potential hires. The Rooney's have been awesome at hiring good coaches and creating a good environment for them to thrive in. Or maybe they just rolled snake eyes three times in a row.

They are basically the same...except for one super obvious and totally trivial detail.

[Captain Lemming]

Nobody would have been surprised by Grimm or Whis, strictly because they were with the organization at the time. That's the difference. Nobody ever even heard of Tomlin.

1 year as a coordinator, where his defense was ranked last against the pass, with no ties to anyone in Pittsburgh, was obviously more than enough to get one of the most coveted coaching positions in all of sports?

Pass defense is how you judge a DB coach. He was cornerbacks coach of the best pass defense of the era at Tampa Bay.
He was DC of the Vikings with the number 8 defense. You ignore that people did nothing but pass on that team as they had a HISTORICALLY great run defense. Overall defense......
THAT is how you judge a coordinator.

You guys love to parse his record unfavorably.

[Captain Lemming]

Nobody would have been surprised by Grimm or Whis, strictly because they were with the organization at the time. That's the difference. Nobody ever even heard of Tomlin.

In the organization an advantage?
When Cowher was hire Mean Joe was the insider AND black.
Dan did not NEED his own rule.....it is HIS value to provide equal opportunities, not a guaranteed job.

The Steelers hired the more impressive Cowher FROM OUTSIDE.

Both young and dynamic, more motivator than tactician.
Frankly, there is no more similar consecutive coaching hires in the LEAGUE than Cowher and Tomlin. Heck the “type” goes back to Noll.

We have NEVER had a Walsh or Belichick type tactician as a coach.

[whatever]

I hate the "Rooney Rule" argument because it doesn't stand up if you look at anything outside of Tomlin's skin color.

His hire is almost exactly the same as Cowher's. Both promising, young, passionate coaches moving up the coaching ranks mentored by very good coaches that probably gave them strong recommendations despite them not having lots of experience.

I guess the biggest difference would be that Tomlin's recommendation came from Dungy. He's a guy who won a ring with us (led the team in Ints in a SB season), then coached our DBs, then was promoted to our DC. He later became a HC for Indy and was Tomlin's employer. So, his "ties to Pittsburgh" were that he's part of the 2nd generation of Noll's coaching tree and directly trained by a guy who was part of the Steel Curtain. I'm sure that the Rooneys put a lot of faith in that recommendation (another perk of having an ownership group that players respect).

But even this isn't super different from Cowher. Though his contributions to the Steelers weren't nearly what Dungy's were, Marty did get a cup of coffee of the Steelers roster in 71 (before being traded again that season and ultimately retiring to pursue coaching).

And in hindsight, it's OBVIOUS that Tomlin was the best choice of the three potential hires. The Rooney's have been awesome at hiring good coaches and creating a good environment for them to thrive in. Or maybe they just rolled snake eyes three times in a row.

They are basically the same...except for one super obvious and totally trivial detail.

There should be no problem hiring the next HC then.

[Oh wow]

There should be no problem hiring the next HC then.

Yup. But until that time comes it’s probably best to stop trying to make a case for Tomlin to get fired since you know how our FO operates.