PFF Ranks Pouncey

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

This was in 2013 correct?

We were 8-8 that year.
Ben was sacked 42 times.
we were ranked 27th in rushing yards.
we ranked 26th in rushing TD's..

maybe I'm looking at the wrong year?

Maybe so ... which year were you looking at when you wrote that we had a "whiff of success" without Pouncey?

[feltdizz]

Maybe so ... which year were you looking at when you wrote that we had a "whiff of success" without Pouncey?

Honestly I was quoting Captain from earlier in our debates about Pouncey. I have no idea where we had a whiff of success without Pouncey but I'm sure Cap can pull up some weird stat where we scored on a short TD once or twice which proves he wasn't missed.

I remember after Valasco took over folks were saying we were just as good without Pouncey.

I never agreed.

[Captain Lemming]

Honestly I was quoting Captain from earlier in our debates about Pouncey. I have no idea where we had a whiff of success without Pouncey but I'm sure Cap can pull up some weird stat where we scored on a short TD once or twice which proves he wasn't missed.

I remember after Valasco took over folks were saying we were just as good without Pouncey.

I never agreed.

The "obscure stat" is called 2015.....the season Pouncey missed entirely.
You missed it entirely because it aint in Pouncey's stats.

2015 without Pouncey we had:
The most rushing touchdowns since we drafted Pouncey.
Old man backup Williams led the AFC with 11 touchdowns. NONE longer than six yards, mostly interior runs.
He scored 10 times in 16 attempts within the 5.
Perhaps you say it was because Williams was a touchdown machine, well he bested 11 only once in his long career years ago in his prime.

To further dash any thought that it was Williams magic, Bell when healthy also scored 2 out of his 3 attempts within the 5.

Between the two we were a RIDICULOUS 12 touchdowns in 19 attempts from within the 5.

We also had the best, highest scoring red zone offense since the day we acquired Pouncey (gotta go back to 2007 for a better red zone offense).

It was the ONE SEASON we ran predictably up the middle with no fear and scored at will.

I dont just spout stats my friend, I bring stats that directly relate to a center's contributions to the team.

And our interior run offense was NEVER BETTER since the year Pouncey was drafted than the one season Pouncey missed entirely.

Please Dizz.....share with the class the specific way we miss Pouncey when he is gone that makes him worth the big money he makes that could be used to strengthen the team elsewhere??

[Captain Lemming]

Maybe so ... which year were you looking at when you wrote that we had a "whiff of success" without Pouncey?

Yeah, the year....2015. By every conceivable measure the interior run game was never better during the entire time Pouncey has been a Steeler.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

The "obscure stat" is called 2015.....the season Pouncey missed entirely.
You missed it entirely because it aint in Pouncey's stats.

2015 without Pouncey we had:
The most rushing touchdowns since we drafted Pouncey.
Old man backup Williams led the AFC with 11 touchdowns. NONE longer than six yards, mostly interior runs.
He scored 10 times in 16 attempts within the 5.
Perhaps you say it was because Williams was a touchdown machine, well he bested 11 only once in his long career years ago in his prime.

To further dash any thought that it was Williams magic, Bell when healthy also scored 2 out of his 3 attempts within the 5.
We had the best, highest scoring red zone offense since we acquired Pouncey.

It was the ONE SEASON we ran predictably up the middle with no fear and scored at will.

I dont just spout stats my friend, I bring stats that directly relate to a center's contributions to the team.

And our interior run offense was NEVER BETTER since the year Pouncey was drafted than the one season Pouncey missed entirely.

Please Dizz.....share with the class the specific way we miss Pouncey when he is gone that makes him worth the big money he makes that could be used to strengthen the team elsewhere??

Oh, so now you have stooped so low as to use facts to try to support your point of view? Have you no shame, sir??

[Captain Lemming]

Defense looks awesome right now without Tuitt. He is hardly missed, shoulda saved on his huge paycheck.

Waste of money, we should cut him and go with his backup.

Stop with the silly couple games against scrub QB garbage as though it means something.
Come talk to me when we are undefeated with Alu Alu after 10 plus games including wins over not one but TWO SB caliber teams and the leagues number one defense at that point (like 2004), and yes I say we don't need to pay him all that money.
But you and I KNOW that aint happening and until it does, your argument is weak..

[feltdizz]

Stop with the silly couple games against scrub QB garbage as though it means something.
Come talk to me when we are undefeated with Alu Alu after 10 plus games including wins over not one but TWO SB caliber teams and the leagues number one defense at that point (like 2004), and yes I say we don't need to pay him all that money.
But you and I KNOW that aint happening and until it does, your argument is weak..

LOL, even if that happened I would still prefer Tuitt.

[phillyesq]

Please Dizz.....share with the class the specific way we miss Pouncey when he is gone that makes him worth the big money he makes that could be used to strengthen the team elsewhere??

In 2016 (including playoffs), Pouncey did not allow a sack and had only 2 penalties. He also gave up only 13 pressures, best in the AFC. Consistently avoiding pressure up the middle is valuable. After the Mahan/Hartwig years, I have no problem with the Steelers paying for that kind of performance.

[Captain Lemming]

LOL, even if that happened I would still prefer Tuitt.

I know you would. But this is the point Dizz....at what cost.
You've got a finite amount of money to spend.....you gotta make it money WELL spent.
You act like there is no limit, therefore you want to sign everybody all the time.

This is all hypothetical, I wanted Tuitt signed. But what if he wasnt already signed? Would I extend him after we go a season with the number one defense and reel off 10 straight with Alu Alu?

Do I think Alu Alu is a better player? No. But if we had the number one defense, went undefeated with Alu Alu, would I extend Tuitt?

Consider this. what it Martavious reached his potential and tore it up?
What if Bell was league and SB MVP?

In fact when Bell walks......the difference between what whe offered and what he wants is half of Pouncey's salary.

You simply cannot sign everybody Dizz.

[feltdizz]

The "obscure stat" is called 2015.....the season Pouncey missed entirely.
You missed it entirely because it aint in Pouncey's stats.

2015 without Pouncey we had:
The most rushing touchdowns since we drafted Pouncey.
Old man backup Williams led the AFC with 11 touchdowns. NONE longer than six yards, mostly interior runs.
He scored 10 times in 16 attempts within the 5.
Perhaps you say it was because Williams was a touchdown machine, well he bested 11 only once in his long career years ago in his prime.

To further dash any thought that it was Williams magic, Bell when healthy also scored 2 out of his 3 attempts within the 5.

Between the two we were a RIDICULOUS 12 touchdowns in 19 attempts from within the 5.

We also had the best, highest scoring red zone offense since the day we acquired Pouncey (gotta go back to 2007 for a better red zone offense).

It was the ONE SEASON we ran predictably up the middle with no fear and scored at will.

I dont just spout stats my friend, I bring stats that directly relate to a center's contributions to the team.

And our interior run offense was NEVER BETTER since the year Pouncey was drafted than the one season Pouncey missed entirely.

Please Dizz.....share with the class the specific way we miss Pouncey when he is gone that makes him worth the big money he makes that could be used to strengthen the team elsewhere??

Williams was definitely a good RB with a nose for the endzone. He only eclipsed 11 TD's one other time because he routinely split carries in Carolina.

We could have just as much success running the FB in the RZ inside the 5 if Ben stopped checking out to pass plays.

I'll give you the success in 2015 but were we a better team without Pouncey on the OL? Hell no.

We were still ranked 16th in rushing and our whopping success scoring TD's without Pouncey? 3 more TD's.

Whoa, stop the presses, lets cut Pouncey and go with the backup. You also minimize the importance Pouncey has with calling the OL protection and getting to the second level.

[feltdizz]

I know you would. But this is the point Dizz....at what cost.
You've got a finite amount of money to spend.....you gotta make it money WELL spent.
You act like there is no limit, therefore you want to sign everybody all the time.

This is all hypothetical, I wanted Tuitt signed. But what if he wasnt already signed? Would I extend him after we go a season with the number one defense and reel off 10 straight with Alu Alu?

Do I think Alu Alu is a better player? No. But if we had the number one defense, went undefeated with Alu Alu, would I extend Tuitt?

Consider this. what it Martavious reached his potential and tore it up?
What if Bell was league and SB MVP?

In fact when Bell walks......the difference between what whe offered and what he wants is half of Pouncey's salary.

You simply cannot sign everybody Dizz.

You can't sign everyone but you can sign your best players.

How many times have we let our best players get away when they weren't a locker room cancer?

Who are these players that we haven't been able to retain due to running out of money?

[Captain Lemming]

In 2016 (including playoffs), Pouncey did not allow a sack and had only 2 penalties. He also gave up only 13 pressures, best in the AFC. Consistently avoiding pressure up the middle is valuable. After the Mahan/Hartwig years, I have no problem with the Steelers paying for that kind of performance.

Legit point here, Pouncey is an outstanding pass blocker true. And his replacement in 2015 was a penalty machine.
He also gets to the second level with his elite athleticism in run blocking. He is also great at not allowing penetration, which is why historically Bell rarely takes a loss.
But he simply does not "move people" out of the way.....on an even average level, which is my beef with his being overrated.

If you cant be confident interior runs in short yardage, and are frequently stuffed when we try, when every main RB that is effective has to routinely dance or wait (Mendenhall and Bell) because there is typically no hole, you aint great.

[RuthlessBurgher]

The Steelers had an unprecedented run of continuously excellent center play from 1964-2000 with Ray Mansfield, then Mike Webster, then Dermontti Dawson (rivaled only by the longevity of our 3 head coaches since 1969).

We got few years of quality play from free agent addition Jeff Hastings after Dawson retired, but latter portion of that decade before we drafted Pouncey was a wasteland featuring the likes of Sean Mahan, Chukki Okobi, Justin Hartwig, etc.

For those years, whenever we drafted, signed, or even showed interest in a player at any position, the sarcastic comment was inevitably, "Can he play center?" simply because our center play was overwhelmingly so bad after being consistently so good for so long.

Well, Pouncey finally answered that question for us once and for all. Yes...yes, he can play center. It doesn't matter to me where the British dude from PFF ranks him or whether or not Captain this he is worth his cap hit.

[feltdizz]

Legit point here, Pouncey is an outstanding pass blocker true. And his replacement in 2015 was a penalty machine.
He also gets to the second level with his elite athleticism in run blocking. He is also great at not allowing penetration, which is why historically Bell rarely takes a loss.
But he simply does not "move people" out of the way.....on an even average level, which is my beef with his being overrated.

If you cant be confident interior runs in short yardage, and are frequently stuffed when we try, when every main RB that is effective has to routinely dance or wait (Mendenhall and Bell) because there is typically no hole, you aint great.

You do realize Pouncey isn't the whole interior OL?

[Captain Lemming]

The Steelers had an unprecedented run of continuously excellent center play from 1964-2000 with Ray Mansfield, then Mike Webster, then Dermontti Dawson (rivaled only by the longevity of our 3 head coaches since 1969).

We got few years of quality play from free agent addition Jeff Hastings after Dawson retired, but latter portion of that decade before we drafted Pouncey was a wasteland featuring the likes of Sean Mahan, Chukki Okobi, Justin Hartwig, etc.

For those years, whenever we drafted, signed, or even showed interest in a player at any position, the sarcastic comment was inevitably, "Can he play center?" simply because our center play was overwhelmingly so bad after being consistently so good for so long.

Well, Pouncey finally answered that question for us once and for all. Yes...yes, he can play center. It doesn't matter to me where the British dude from PFF ranks him or whether or not Captain this he is worth his cap hit.

Funny you mention Hartings. Despite never getting the accolades of Pouncey I'd take him before Pouncey.
In fact a perfect example, you can sign good enough free agents like Hartings if you don't overspend on over rated players who themselves are no better than "good enough".

I have always felt that our legacy of great centers you mention (along with the occasional highlight worthy athletic splash plays) helped cement Pouncey's reputation as elite prematurely.