Good read Cowher V's Tomlin

[phillyesq]

maybe it's the scheme? We draft players and break them down and build them back up instead of letting them come in and do what made them attractive in college.

I don't think you can blame it on scheme. Gildon, Porter, Emmons and Haggans among other were all developed. There were Steve Conleys as well, but a much better success rate than Chris Carter, Bruce Davis and Jason Worilds.

Smith and Keisel were excellent examples of guys who developed, as was Orpheus Roye.

Ike Taylor took time to develop, as a raw athlete out of a small school. Hopefully Cortez Allen will.

[Slapstick]

It's stupid to think they had any similarities other than being a Steeler HC.

...and the fact that they struggled after starting to lose their inherited players...

[feltdizz]

Tomlin did more with inherited players because he inherited BETTER players and more of them. Also did Tomlin go through a power struggle with the GM? Did Tomlin have to deal with FAs leaving because the STeelers couldn't afford to play them? Did Tomlin have to deal with pre-Heinz field budgets? Did Tomlin have to deal with a team that didn't have a franchise QB? It's stupid to think they had any similarities other than being a Steeler HC. Things were different back then but people forget that so they can build Tomlin up.

I think most are willing to give Tomlin time to fail...

He inherited a good team and a franchise QB.. and we won a SB and appeared in another. The guy hasn't even had a losing season on the books and you are acting like we are on a 5 year playoff drought.

[feltdizz]

Well, you are getting your wish on this one with this year's No. 1 pick. JJ hired to do exactly what he did in college....

and I expect good things from him and I'm thankful he is starting.

[Notleadpoisoned]

Tomlin just needs some leaders on the field. Ben and Troy are great players but not great leaders of men.

[Vader]

...and the fact that they struggled after starting to lose their inherited players...

You can't be this obtuse. Cowher lost players to FAs. Not because he lost Noll's players. Again just look at the numbers. He had 3 players from Noll's team on defense in 95. He won without Noll's players in 4 years. Tomlin's best players are STILL from Cowher's time.

I think most are willing to give Tomlin time to fail...

He inherited a good team and a franchise QB.. and we won a SB and appeared in another. The guy hasn't even had a losing season on the books and you are acting like we are on a 5 year playoff drought.

They haven't missed the playoff 5 straight years but they haven't won a playoff game since 2010 against the Jets. They lost to one of the worst QBs to ever play a playoff game in Tim Tebow 2 years ago. I don't like the direction of this team and I don't like the Tomlin/Colbert team when it comes to drafting. I'm not saying to fire Tomlin. I don't like the direction but he should have time to straighten it out.

[birtikidis]

You can't be this obtuse. Cowher lost players to FAs. Not because he lost Noll's players. Again just look at the numbers. He had 3 players from Noll's team on defense in 95. He won without Noll's players in 4 years. Tomlin's best players are STILL from Cowher's time.



They haven't missed the playoff 5 straight years but they haven't won a playoff game since 2010 against the Jets. They lost to one of the worst QBs to ever play a playoff game in Tim Tebow 2 years ago. I don't like the direction of this team and I don't like the Tomlin/Colbert team when it comes to drafting. I'm not saying to fire Tomlin. I don't like the direction but he should have time to straighten it out.

Eerily similar to losing in the afccg to harbaugh. Or letting a very young Tom Brady come in for an injured Drew Bledsoe to beat you at home. Cowher had a number of issues. The afc championship game was his nightmare. Regardless of talent.

[feltdizz]

You can't be this obtuse. Cowher lost players to FAs. Not because he lost Noll's players. Again just look at the numbers. He had 3 players from Noll's team on defense in 95. He won without Noll's players in 4 years. Tomlin's best players are STILL from Cowher's time.



They haven't missed the playoff 5 straight years but they haven't won a playoff game since 2010 against the Jets. They lost to one of the worst QBs to ever play a playoff game in Tim Tebow 2 years ago. I don't like the direction of this team and I don't like the Tomlin/Colbert team when it comes to drafting. I'm not saying to fire Tomlin. I don't like the direction but he should have time to straighten it out.

I agree with a change in philosophy... I just wish our owner didn't tamper with the coaching staff after a playoff appearance.

[Shawn]

Me and you both have been debating this. And a surprising fact that I found. Through 4 games the Steelers have only 18 penalties the least for the team since 2006, so obviously they ain't that terrible in not being prepared like some argue.

Have you compared any other year besides this one? I have seen the stats. There was an impressive fall off with Tomlin in the giveaway/takeaways and penalty yards. 4 games this season when we are 0-4? Yeah, I'm not really ready to ignore the rest of his career.

[Vader]

Eerily similar to losing in the afccg to harbaugh. Or letting a very young Tom Brady come in for an injured Drew Bledsoe to beat you at home. Cowher had a number of issues. The afc championship game was his nightmare. Regardless of talent.

What Harbaugh did he lose the AFCC game to? Also Cowher lost 3 AFCC games to teams that were later known to be cheating. The Broncos cheated the salary cap to keep their players. The pats* were caught in spying on teams. Has Tomlin ever had those issues?

[Vader]

I agree with a change in philosophy... I just wish our owner didn't tamper with the coaching staff after a playoff appearance.

Losing to Tim Tebow was a hell of a blow. BA was getting Rooney's $100 Million QB killed and not scoring points. They were 20th in the league in scoring which is horrible when you have a franchise QB. Haley's offense has been worse but that doesn't make BAs good.

[Keyplay1]

This is why I posted several years ago that the org would be wise to bring Cowher in as a consultant during the off season to give some input on defensive player evaluations in both the draft and FA.

I knew this was not ever going to happen. BC was very satisfied where he was at and why not.

Anyway I notice that BC will be in the booth as a color commentator next Sunday. Hmm! Interesting. Watching games live and not from behind a desk in NY. Frankly, I am reading probably more into this than is there.

[Oviedo]

No... It has nothing to do with the 3-4 scheme and it's not just the defense either.

For some reason, the only position that we've had success developing is WR.

Sorry but totally disagree. We take Def Tackles who usually made their money in college attacking through a one gap. We then "convert" them to "occupy blockers" to keep the LBs clean. We also take DEs who have good pass rushing credentials and "convert" them to OLB and add pass coverage responsibilities.

LeBeau's defense does not take them from college and put them in familiar positions.

[Oviedo]

I don't think you can blame it on scheme. Gildon, Porter, Emmons and Haggans among other were all developed. There were Steve Conleys as well, but a much better success rate than Chris Carter, Bruce Davis and Jason Worilds.

Smith and Keisel were excellent examples of guys who developed, as was Orpheus Roye.

Ike Taylor took time to develop, as a raw athlete out of a small school. Hopefully Cortez Allen will.

Was half the league playing the 3-4 looking for players that we usually had first dibs on when Gildon and Porter were developed? I would not count Emmons or Haggans as success stories.

The competition to find the undersized DEs to play 3-4 OLB is much greater than in the 90s.

[feltdizz]

Losing to Tim Tebow was a hell of a blow. BA was getting Rooney's $100 Million QB killed and not scoring points. They were 20th in the league in scoring which is horrible when you have a franchise QB. Haley's offense has been worse but that doesn't make BAs good.

killed into the playoffs...

BA's offense wasnt grear but it was explosive and it worked with our D. Now we have dink and dunk, ball control, Ben still getting killed without the wins.

For the last 3 or 4 years fans on here have cried about Ben dying on the field. Its just the way he llays... he likes contact and isnt afraid to sacrifice his body to complete a pass. We had a good formula and screwed it up because fans and the owner wanted fantasy points.