Would you trade Big Ben?

[Dresden]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

Laser when you mentioned Manning wins rings, were you suggesting Ben doesn't? I believe Ben has two himself.

Yeah,.. and Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, and Mark Rypien have also played on Superbowl Winning teams.

Certainly this not only put's them on the same level as most all time Greats that also played in the Big Game and not only won,.. but also won MVP awards. But also elite passers like Warren Moon and Dan Marino.

[Dresden]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

The Colts would never trade their selection (and for all intents and purposes Luck) for Roethlisberger.

Dude, it's only a percentage of the Steeler Nation that actually believes that Roethlisberger is elite when they say that nonsense. Colts fans would nearly riot in Indianapolis

Can you name 5 QBs you'd rather have? Maybe.

Honestly dude,...there's no maybe.

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

Josh Freeman


After these guys,..everybody else is pretty much the same guy,..the "somewhere in between solid to awful" QB, including Roethlisberger. IMHO

Not to say that a team can't win with guys like that,...i'm just saying people shouldn't get beside themselves and consider them the heart and soul of and or the most valuable players on their respective teams when that is in FACT far from truth.

You forgot to add Sanchez. You were slobbering on Sanchez's hot dog some time back or was it Williar??

It really doesn't matter Dresden and Williar are interchangeable

No Williar. But i'm almost certain that they were a poster who was not foolish enough to publicly say that they believe a Qb like Roethlisberger is "elite", a Hall of Famer, the "Hero" of and or the most important player on the roster of his Franchise.

[D Rock]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

Never played "Fantasy" Football a day in my life homeboy. However, consistent productivity or lack thereof when matched against ones peers is often a pretty good indicator of one's true worth.

No, it's not.

Philip Rivers is worthless, because he doesn't win games when it counts. His team consistently fails with top-notch rosters.

Josh Freeman threw 16 TDs and 22 INTs this year. His team went 4-12 this year.

Peyton Manning? You would still take him over Ben? He may not ever play another down of football.

Sam Bradford has a career passer rating of 74.2. He may be good in time, but that time isn't now.


Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, Newton, Brees.....now these guys all have a solid argument. Personally, I would be very happy to have any of them OR Ben. They are all together at the top of the league.


But dang man, you sure do like to exaggerate your statements.

[feltdizz]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

Never played "Fantasy" Football a day in my life homeboy. However, consistent productivity or lack thereof when matched against ones peers is often a pretty good indicator of one's true worth.

No, it's not.

Philip Rivers is worthless, because he doesn't win games when it counts. His team consistently fails with top-notch rosters.

Josh Freeman threw 16 TDs and 22 INTs this year. His team went 4-12 this year.

Peyton Manning? You would still take him over Ben? He may not ever play another down of football.

Sam Bradford has a career passer rating of 74.2. He may be good in time, but that time isn't now.


Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, Newton, Brees.....now these guys all have a solid argument. Personally, I would be very happy to have any of them OR Ben. They are all together at the top of the league.


But dang man, you sure do like to exaggerate your statements.

While I'm not a Rivers fan the guy isn't worthless.... If the DB didn't catch a needless INT on 4th down and fumble he may have a SB appearance on his resume.

I wouldn't take him over Ben or put him in the same convo is Ben though because Rivers is in a pretty bad division.

[Slapstick]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

However, consistent productivity or lack thereof when matched against ones peers is often a pretty good indicator of one's true worth.

How do you define consistency? Matthew Stafford, for example, has played for three seasons...he had a great season last year...the previous year, he played in three games...the year before that, he did not have a good season...

Now, can you say that he consistently produces better than Roethlisberger?

After eight seasons, Roethlisberger has a better career completion percentage, passer rating, Yards per Attempt and lower INT%....

That is consistency...

Yeah,.. and Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, and Mark Rypien have also played on Superbowl Winning teams.

Certainly this not only put's them on the same level as most all time Greats that also played in the Big Game and not only won,.. but also won MVP awards. But also elite passers like Warren Moon and Dan Marino.

How many of those guys you mentioned started more than one SB? More than two?

How many have a playoff record better than Roethlisberger?

How many have more than one SB ring?

Please, enlighten me...

[Shawn]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

Laser when you mentioned Manning wins rings, were you suggesting Ben doesn't? I believe Ben has two himself.

No Ben also wins rings. But the Defence helps.

No really, I think Ben and Eli are about the same QB overall. Stats are close. But as far as super bowl play Eli wins. Both times he has beaten Brady and been the MVP. But Ben is right in his hip pocket or even better at other QB play. Thats why I have them both at 4a and 4b and not sure which is which.

Ben:
TOTAL
114 3,313 2,090 63.1 29.1 26,579 8.0 233.1 165 5.0 100 3.0 95 363 70 314 2,090 92.1
Eli
TOTAL
121 3,921 2,291 58.4 32.4 27,579 7.0 227.9 185 4.7 129 3.3 99 345 67 194 1,376 82.1

Stats from here:
[url="http://www.nfl.com/players/search?category=position&playerType=current&d-447263-p=2&conference=ALL&filter=quarterback&conferenceAb br=null"]http://www.nfl.com/players/search?categ ... eAbbr=null[/url]

I hear ya, and agree. As of late, Eli looks like the better passer to me. With that said, over the course of their careers I would give it to Ben.

[Dresden]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

After eight seasons, Roethlisberger has a better career completion percentage, passer rating, Yards per Attempt and lower INT%....

Post your Boy's career Td/turnover ratio versus 500 or better ball clubs. Or hey,.. you don't even have to go that deep,..just do so for every postseason game in which he has ever played in.

How many of those guys you mentioned started more than one SB? More than two?

How many have a playoff record better than Roethlisberger?

How many have more than one SB ring?

Please, enlighten me...

None of those guys were deemed by their respective organizations to be "that guy" and carried by the team for any extended period of time after they PARTICIPATED in VARYING degrees to World titles won by TEAM efforts.

That is pretty much 'Mass' style enlightenment Sir/Ma'am

[Mo_Steel]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

Allow me to play devil's advocate here...

Ben will turn 30 very soon. He gets hit A TON and the injuries are mounting more and more every year. His best years will not last much longer. At that point, the Steelers have no back up plan and are unlikely to be in position to draft a game breaker at QB unless they have an absolutely awful season that we all have to endure.

Unloading him for the 1st overall pick, which without his buddy Bruce being involved in would have no chance at happening otherwise, would allow the Steelers to get Andrew Luck, an incredible prospect as a prototype quarterback. Rookies have a salary scale, so Luck wont cost as much as he would have a few years ago. Unloading Ben could greatly help the salary cap situation, too, I would imagine.

Lots of vet players need to be unloaded in the very near future. It's not a full-on rebuilding year, but it is certainly one of change. Steeler Nation has been very fortunate to experience 3 recent Super Bowls, winning 2 of them. If five years from now Ben is gone, and there is no young gun to step in, than a run like that likely doesn't happen again for quite a while. On the other hand, if Luck is as good as advertised, the Steelers have a chance to run off another 3 Super Bowls or more over the next 10 years.


Ben for the Colts 1 and 2 this year and 2 and 3 next year. I would certainly think long and hard about pulling the trigger. It hurts the team this year, but possibly sets them up for the next 10 to 15.

Good point on the cap savings.

I don't think this will be the case. We would ADD several million in "Dead Money" to our Cap at an accelerated rate. He still has three years or so left on his deal plus a restructure last season no way can they afford that cap hit now. Not sure of the exact numbers but Ben would cost us to trade not SAVE.

All things being equal I still wouldn't trade him at this time, still believe he has a Super Bowl or two in him over the next 5 years, especially if they can figure out a way to keep him vertical in the pocket.

[Mo_Steel]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

Found some info on what Ben has left that would be accelerated:

[url="http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/749872/Pgh_Steelers_Salary_Cap__10-15-2011_.pdf"]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/74987 ... -2011_.pdf[/url]

this is list of steelers cap from last year and he still shows over $21 million in Bonus money still due after last years restructure, that would be accelerated immediatly to the cap if he was traded.

Best option we can do with Ben will be to extend him a couple years to spread out the hit further as well as restructure turning some more of this years $6.3 million base into signing bonus.

Looks like we should be able to pay him for simplicity sake $2 mill base this year(not sure what we have to pay him), extend him two years and this would add $4.3 to his signing bonus remaining but due to the extension will be able to spread it over the contract which would then be 5 years so it looks like the cap number for bonus would actually drop to $5,126,000. So putting the numbers together with extension of 2 years and only paying a base of $2 mil. Been would cost us this year $7,126,000 lowering his cap number and saving $4,554,000 against our cap. Don't trade Extend the man...

[Slapstick]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

After eight seasons, Roethlisberger has a better career completion percentage, passer rating, Yards per Attempt and lower INT%....

Post your Boy's career Td/turnover ratio versus 500 or better ball clubs. Or hey,.. you don't even have to go that deep,..just do so for every postseason game in which he has ever played in.

Answered in another thread:

our supposed pro bowl QB had over 100 QB rating in 3 consecutive road playoff games in route to that SB 40 victory. something that was never done before


gotta love how some haters pick their stats

Nice try, though...

How many of those guys you mentioned started more than one SB? More than two?

How many have a playoff record better than Roethlisberger?

How many have more than one SB ring?

Please, enlighten me...

None of those guys were deemed by their respective organizations to be "that guy" and carried by the team for any extended period of time after they PARTICIPATED in VARYING degrees to World titles won by TEAM efforts.

That is pretty much 'Mass' style enlightenment Sir/Ma'am

So, what does that have to do with consistency?

10-4 in the playoffs with 2 rings is consistency...

A career QB rating of over 90 is consistency...

A career Yards per Attempt of 8.0 is consistency...

How many QBs that have starter more than 100 games have a career winning percentage of more than 70%?

Not many, but Roethlisberger is one of them

[D Rock]

Re: Would you trade Big Ben?

You must be a really good fantasy football player.

Never played "Fantasy" Football a day in my life homeboy. However, consistent productivity or lack thereof when matched against ones peers is often a pretty good indicator of one's true worth.

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