Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

[7 UP]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

[quote=RuthlessBurgher]

He has never sniffed the Pro Bowl even as an alternate. So no one but you thinks hes one of the better OTs in the game.

Consider that there are 64 starting OT's in the league, and 6 of them make the Pro Bowl each year (3 in each conference). Among OT's, those spots tend to be taken by premium LT's, not RT's (in the AFC, the Pro Bowl tackle nods tend to go to elite LT's taken very early in their draft years like Joe Thomas, Jake Long, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, and Ryan Clady).

So in other words hes not one of the better tackles in the league.

Less than 10% of the starting tackles in the league make the Pro Bowl. No, he isn't in the top 10% of starting tackles in the league. But I don't think that the category "one of the better tackles in the league" cuts off at 10%, do you?

Matt Forte and LeSean McCoy have never made it to the Pro Bowl. Are they not "one of the better running backs in the league" because of it?[/quote:1o54ounq]

Both will make the Pro Bowl this year. You are looking only at guys voted in. How many guys get to go as alternates? How many guys get to be alternates do to injuries? Over the span of Colons career your telling me he has never even been inconsideration for any of those spots, but he is one of the better tackles in the game?

[feltdizz]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

I don't really watch the OL so I can't speak on kickouts and crowd noise but ummm.... you guys make it sound like Colon is the only OT to get a false start.

It happens a lot in the NFL and I'm pretty sure it can be called on any pass play because most OT's tend to "kickout?" a little before the snap.

[phillyesq]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

I'm sure that crowd noise is difficult for all OTs, but I'm pretty sure that Willie and Flozell were both among the league leaders. IIRC, they were 1-2 in false start penalties in 2009.

[steelz09]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

The last 2 years we haven't had Colon. An old man (Flozell) and a rookie (Gilbert) has replaced Colon the last 2 years. IMO, we haven't seen a huge drop off, if any.

That tells me that Colon is nothing to brag about.

[flippy]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

Here's my ranking of our linemen according to their importance.

1. Starks
2. Pouncey
3. Doug
4. Gilbert
5. Ramon

When Colon comes back, I think you either slide him in at RG or move Gilbert to RG if Colon can't play G.

I like Max and Gilbert on the outside. They've got good feet and do a great job against some good pass rushers - especially Max, but you can see Gilbert's the better athlete.

I think Colon doesn't have the lateral quickness to be a great T. And think if you had Doug, Puncey, and Colon on the inside of the line, you'd have some powerful guys that could move some big DTs.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

No...The Steelers do..His contract proves it.
This proves nothing. The Steelers have done a very poor job over the past 10 years of attempting to put an OL together. They have made bad decisions on guys and it has cost them. Colons contract was another example of a poor decision. Remember when they franchised Starks and then benched him???

He is regarded as one of the better RT in the league.
Cmon dude!!! By who???? He was a free agent, nobody wanted him. If not for the Steelers he would be out of the league right now.

Don't know where you have been. You don't like him...So be it. Just because you don't like him and don't know what you are looking at...The truth won't change.
LMFAO again. If you think Willie freaking Colon is one of the best Tackles in the league then you are the one who has no idea what you are looking at. I understand you like him, but at best the guy is average. One of the better in the league. WOW

Starks & Colon were not bad decision. They both have been a huge part of the succes since they have been there. Even if Colon doesn't play another down for the Steelers because of injury...It was the right decision...It will be just bad luck. If Colon wasn't coming off an injury...He would have been a highly sought after free agent on the OL. Even saying that, the Bears made him a large offer. Colon wanted to be here long term...That was no secret.

Colon has been regarded as one of the best RT in this league by many people with better credentials than pee wee football coach. Your opinion of him has nothing to do with his production on the field. It is obvious. That is hilarious that you think Colon wouldn't be in the NFL if he didn't play for the Steelers.

I can evaluate players based on production...Not on personal feelings. You don't like him and we can all see it has nothing to do with what you know about OL play or his play. Spit & stutter all you want...The truth is hard to swallow.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

The last 2 years we haven't had Colon. An old man (Flozell) and a rookie (Gilbert) has replaced Colon the last 2 years. IMO, we haven't seen a huge drop off, if any.

That tells me that Colon is nothing to brag about.

That tells me Flozell and Gilbert are dam good ball players.

[steelz09]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

They are good players.... better than Colon at tackle. That's what I'm saying.

With our o-line struggles why would you go away from what works??? Starkss at LT and Gilbert at RT simply works.

Colon is a good run blocker and has some power. Foster is decent and Legurskey is decent as well and very solid center back-up. I'd let Colon, Legursky and Foster fight for the two starting guard postions. I personally like any one of those three as a guard going into next season. As far as T goes, stick with what WORKS. Leave Starks at LT and Gilbert at RT!

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

They are good players.... better than Colon at tackle. That's what I'm saying.

With our o-line struggles why would you go away from what works??? Starkss at LT and Gilbert at RT simply works.

Colon is a good run blocker and has some power. Foster is decent and Legurskey is decent as well and very solid center back-up. I'd let Colon, Legursky and Foster fight for the two starting guard postions. I personally like any one of those three as a guard going into next season. As far as T goes, stick with what WORKS. Leave Starks at LT and Gilbert at RT!

We need to re-sign Starks first. He is currently working on a 1 year contract. That may not be the easiest thing in the world to do.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

They are good players.... better than Colon at tackle. That's what I'm saying.

With our o-line struggles why would you go away from what works??? Starkss at LT and Gilbert at RT simply works.

Colon is a good run blocker and has some power. Foster is decent and Legurskey is decent as well and very solid center back-up. I'd let Colon, Legursky and Foster fight for the two starting guard postions. I personally like any one of those three as a guard going into next season. As far as T goes, stick with what WORKS. Leave Starks at LT and Gilbert at RT!

Adams wasn't better than Colon. Gilbert on the other hand would be a tough call. I don't think he is better right now but he is growing fast and there is no doubt in my mind he can exceed Colon's level and even play LT. Your theory of "why would you go away from what works" has two sides. Starks & Colon worked too.

Look into the "why would you go away from what works" even further from a coaches perspective. The more important thing would be to get the best 5 on the field. A healthy Colon & Starks would be in that Top 5. Pouncey would top that list. Gilbert definately is in that list too. Now...Kemo will be gone. His ridiculous outing last night all but sealed his fate. Message sent but not received...He is out. Gilbert is slated to be the LT of the future. He also played G in college and if you watch highlights of him in college...He has shown abilities where ever he played. I would be getting him snaps at LG in camp to to get him acclimated with the left side. I think he beats everyone out at G. Not only does that move make sense in a handing but it makes sense in a depth chart perspective with Kemo being gone. Then you have Starks-Gilbert-Pouncey-TBD-Colon. I don't care who you like or what you want to say...That is a very good 4 to work with.

Foster & Bronco are valuable and capable starters...But they will get competition in the trenches for next year. Neither will go anywhere if they get beat out.

[7 UP]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

They are good players.... better than Colon at tackle. That's what I'm saying.

With our o-line struggles why would you go away from what works??? Starkss at LT and Gilbert at RT simply works.

Colon is a good run blocker and has some power. Foster is decent and Legurskey is decent as well and very solid center back-up. I'd let Colon, Legursky and Foster fight for the two starting guard postions. I personally like any one of those three as a guard going into next season. As far as T goes, stick with what WORKS. Leave Starks at LT and Gilbert at RT!

Adams wasn't better than Colon. Gilbert on the other hand would be a tough call. I don't think he is better right now but he is growing fast and there is no doubt in my mind he can exceed Colon's level and even play LT. Your theory of "why would you go away from what works" has two sides. Starks & Colon worked too.

Look into the "why would you go away from what works" even further from a coaches perspective. The more important thing would be to get the best 5 on the field. A healthy Colon & Starks would be in that Top 5. Pouncey would top that list. Gilbert definately is in that list too. Now...Kemo will be gone. His ridiculous outing last night all but sealed his fate. Message sent but not received...He is out. Gilbert is slated to be the LT of the future. He also played G in college and if you watch highlights of him in college...He has shown abilities where ever he played. I would be getting him snaps at LG in camp to to get him acclimated with the left side. I think he beats everyone out at G. Not only does that move make sense in a handing but it makes sense in a depth chart perspective with Kemo being gone. Then you have Starks-Gilbert-Pouncey-TBD-Colon. I don't care who you like or what you want to say...That is a very good 4 to work with.

Foster & Bronco are valuable and capable starters...But they will get competition in the trenches for next year. Neither will go anywhere if they get beat out.

Adams was 30 times better than Colon. Flozell is a guy who was one of the best in the league, and highly regarded. Not Colon. But wait thats right, you spent some time as a backup lineman for Division3 Devry Technical Institutes Flag Football team, so you know best. Your not even living in reality.

[Slapstick]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

Adams was 30 times better than Colon. Flozell is a guy who was one of the best in the league, and highly regarded.

In his prime, Adams was probably better than Colon...

Last year? Not really...

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

[quote=7 UP]

They are good players.... better than Colon at tackle. That's what I'm saying.

With our o-line struggles why would you go away from what works??? Starkss at LT and Gilbert at RT simply works.

Colon is a good run blocker and has some power. Foster is decent and Legurskey is decent as well and very solid center back-up. I'd let Colon, Legursky and Foster fight for the two starting guard postions. I personally like any one of those three as a guard going into next season. As far as T goes, stick with what WORKS. Leave Starks at LT and Gilbert at RT!

Adams wasn't better than Colon. Gilbert on the other hand would be a tough call. I don't think he is better right now but he is growing fast and there is no doubt in my mind he can exceed Colon's level and even play LT. Your theory of "why would you go away from what works" has two sides. Starks & Colon worked too.

Look into the "why would you go away from what works" even further from a coaches perspective. The more important thing would be to get the best 5 on the field. A healthy Colon & Starks would be in that Top 5. Pouncey would top that list. Gilbert definately is in that list too. Now...Kemo will be gone. His ridiculous outing last night all but sealed his fate. Message sent but not received...He is out. Gilbert is slated to be the LT of the future. He also played G in college and if you watch highlights of him in college...He has shown abilities where ever he played. I would be getting him snaps at LG in camp to to get him acclimated with the left side. I think he beats everyone out at G. Not only does that move make sense in a handing but it makes sense in a depth chart perspective with Kemo being gone. Then you have Starks-Gilbert-Pouncey-TBD-Colon. I don't care who you like or what you want to say...That is a very good 4 to work with.

Foster & Bronco are valuable and capable starters...But they will get competition in the trenches for next year. Neither will go anywhere if they get beat out.

Adams was 30 times better than Colon. Flozell is a guy who was one of the best in the league, and highly regarded. Not Colon. But wait thats right, you spent some time as a backup lineman for Division3 Devry Technical Institutes Flag Football team, so you know best. Your not even living in reality.[/quote:ah7uvlzi]

Adams was not better than Colon last year. Adams was a better OT over his career and I never indicated he wasn't. Don't hate the player hate the game. It isn't my fault mommy wouldn't let you leave the house for college and in high school you stood at the shower opening and collected the dirty jock straps. Did they give you a letter jacket for that? Stop crying like the child you are by trying to type facts that nobody is disputing. Don't be mad at me. There is even a place in this world for Walmart greeters...They work as hard as the next guy. I like you...That should count for something.

[7 UP]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

[url="http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7880"]http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/pl ... sp?id=7880[/url]

Heres some stats for you guys on Willie Colon the worlds greatest tackle.

In 2007 through 2009 WILLIE GAVE UP 27.5 sacks!!!!!!! Thats nearly 10 a season!!! In 07 he gave up 12!!! If he was a DE he would be in the Pro Bowl with that many sacks.

Penalties

In 07-09 the guy had 23 holding/falsestart penalties.

Now lets compare this to Max Starks
[url="http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6834"]http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/pl ... sp?id=6834[/url]

Both players played in all games 07-09.

Starks in the same span gave up 14.5 sacks. Thats half!! Starks had only 3 flase starts in 3 years.(Kind of makes the whole crowd noise thing sound pretty stupid now dosent it. Maybe next you will tell us how its louder on the right side of the line.)

Theres the numbers. Not only is Willie not one of the best in the league. Hes numbers are downright awful.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7880

Heres some stats for you guys on Willie Colon the worlds greatest tackle.

In 2007 through 2009 WILLIE GAVE UP 27.5 sacks!!!!!!! Thats nearly 10 a season!!! In 07 he gave up 12!!! If he was a DE he would be in the Pro Bowl with that many sacks.

Penalties

In 07-09 the guy had 23 holding/falsestart penalties.

Now lets compare this to Max Starks
[url="http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6834"]http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/pl ... sp?id=6834[/url]

Both players played in all games 07-09.

Starks in the same span gave up 14.5 sacks. Thats half!! Starks had only 3 flase starts in 3 years.(Kind of makes the whole crowd noise thing sound pretty stupid now dosent it. Maybe next you will tell us how its louder on the right side of the line.)

Theres the numbers. Not only is Willie not one of the best in the league. Hes numbers are downright awful.

Wow...I never met someone who makes it so easy on me. You should read the links you post. Starks & Colon didn't start the same games over that span fool...Starks started 31 & Colon started 48. Let's look at 2009.
Starks-7 penalties-3 false starts-4 hold-10 sacks
Colon-6 penalties-4 false starts-2 hold-9 sacks

Lets compare to some "premier" OTs
Joe Thomas-6 penalties-4 false starts-2 hold-6 sacks
D Ferguson-8 penalties-5 false starts-2 hold-8 sacks
D Brown-7 penalties-6 false starts-0 hold-8 sacks

If you want to go to the next subject about false starts & noise...Keep looking at Gs & Cs stats and compare their false starts to the OTs. That is awesome...you gave me the resource to show my opinion is fact based on stats. You are like a little deer who just walked up to me in the woods and handed me the bullets.

I appreciate all the help in proving my point. You have been a big help.