Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

Colon was playing his best football before his injury this year.

???
Colon hardly played this year--his injury happened so early on, I can barely remember that he was around.

He had a holding call and a false start in Baltimore before getting hurt.

Just some FYI..Everyone knocks his false starts. It is easy to ridicule if you never played football or never played OL. I can't imagine what it is like on the NFL level especially on the road. An OG or C has NO excuse. Plain and simple. For an OT...People do realize that on the road the OTs struggle to hear the cadence and can't see the ball out of their peripheral vision because of their deeper set? Any being a shorter OT doesn't help seeing the C out of the corner of your eye. So the OT is going off the G movement if he can't hear. Or cheating (which at the pro level a vet DL/OLB will catch you looking) and you go off your guys movement. The guy rushing has clear sight of ball and goes on movement. That is why many times you see the OT flinch with a twitch from the rusher. Caught him! Many times even when he can hear the OT tries to anticipate and get out as quick as the rusher. So as much as it pi$$es the average fan off...Some of us can appreciate the penalty. You hate to see it..But you know what is going on. You can give them a pass for one or maybe two on the road or against a premier rusher. Man you guys are brutal. I bet the majority of us in here wouldn't even get a hand on the rusher who is coming off the edge even if you knew ahead of time he was going to peel the corner on you. These are the worlds best athletes...Little things help in success.

That being said…I do not believe Colon will be released if he is healthy. Is there any logic to releasing a healthy player you just signed a multi year deal and send him to the street with 4 million dollars? Wow...Who forgot about the business side here. The same people who worked to give him that big contract are the same people that will have to walk in Rooney's office and say they are sending a healthy player to the street with 4 million of his dollars. Really? Who thinks that is something that will happen. He got that big contract based on his onfield production before this year. The FO saw fit to reward him yet the fans think he is garbage. If he is healthy...Colon is here. At worst case if he is healthy, the Steelers will ask him where he wants to be traded to but do they real have enough quality OL to do that? It is ridiculous to think the Steelers will get rid of one of their best OL, if he is healthy, who they just signed to a big contract because he didn't play this year and they have someone who filled in for him and performed at a high level.

[ikestops85]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

Colon signed a 5 year - $29M contract with a $6M SB. To cut him next year his cap hit will still be $4.8M which makes it that much less that you can give to Starks.

Steelers do not sign big time long term contracts and then cut the player the following year. That is a Washington Redskins move.

The big cap hits for 2012 with questionable value to the team are Ward ($4.6M), Hampton ($7M), Smith ($5M), Kemo ($4.4M), Foote ($3.6M) and Farrior ($3.8M). I don't include Colon and his $5M hit because cutting him would force too much dead money into 2012. I think you have to dump the others though even though you will eat some dead money. This team needs to get younger and free up some money for the rising stars not the fading ones.

The real driver will be what does it take to retain Mike Wallace. I'm thinking at least $7-8M per year. I also would break the standard procedure and get Antonio Brown under contract sooner rather than later but I doubt that happens.

Given those numbers I would say

Ward needs to renegotiate or he's gone
Hampton needs to renegotiate or he's gone (I don't think this happens)
Smith needs to be gone ... I love the guy but it is time
Kemo needs to be gone or at worst renegotiate
Foote has to reduce his price also ... he is a nice guy to have around in case of injuries
Farrior I'm okay with if he stays the starter otherwise he needs to renegotiate
Colon I wish we could cut but it's just not feasible for next year.

Where are we at with Ryan Clark? I think we need to trim some dollars off of his cap hit also. Mundy is starting to play better and better.

[Oviedo]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

Kemo is out after this year. Colon will be here long term unless his injuries have slowed him down. They expect full recovery. Colon was playing his best football before his injury this year.

"Colon was playing his best football..."? How can you say that, when he went down so early and has basically been invisible to us for the past two years? Logic says that his "best football" (which was pre- his injuries, pre- his signing his big contract), his best football is behind him. That being said, he may still have some value, especially if he can play Guard and stay healthy... I think that's the key. Whether he can stay healthy or not.

As to Arians comments about Gilbert, of course he knows way more about the player than we do. But you have to realize that the coach is going to talk his guy up, and give him confidence, etc. I frankly haven't been sold on him yet. I'm hopeful though.

And lastly, I want to publicly commend Max Starks. I've always been hard on the guy, but there is no doubt that he's done a solid solid job. And he's only bound to be more solid, as the weather temperature goes down. The cold weather lends itself to the big plodding guys, rather than the fleet, agile guys.

Starks has been doing exactly what he has done every year as the LT. Good solid, but not spectacular, football.

Classic example of not appreciating what you have until you lose it.

[Oviedo]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

Colon signed a 5 year - $29M contract with a $6M SB. To cut him next year his cap hit will still be $4.8M which makes it that much less that you can give to Starks.

Steelers do not sign big time long term contracts and then cut the player the following year. That is a Washington Redskins move.

The big cap hits for 2012 with questionable value to the team are Ward ($4.6M), Hampton ($7M), Smith ($5M), Kemo ($4.4M), Foote ($3.6M) and Farrior ($3.8M). I don't include Colon and his $5M hit because cutting him would force too much dead money into 2012. I think you have to dump the others though even though you will eat some dead money. This team needs to get younger and free up some money for the rising stars not the fading ones.

The real driver will be what does it take to retain Mike Wallace. I'm thinking at least $7-8M per year. I also would break the standard procedure and get Antonio Brown under contract sooner rather than later but I doubt that happens.

Given those numbers I would say

Ward needs to renegotiate or he's gone
Hampton needs to renegotiate or he's gone (I don't think this happens)
Smith needs to be gone ... I love the guy but it is time
Kemo needs to be gone or at worst renegotiate
Foote has to reduce his price also ... he is a nice guy to have around in case of injuries
Farrior I'm okay with if he stays the starter otherwise he needs to renegotiate
Colon I wish we could cut but it's just not feasible for next year.

Where are we at with Ryan Clark? I think we need to trim some dollars off of his cap hit also. Mundy is starting to play better and better.

Clark is over $4M for next year. Renegotiate or get rid of him.

All these guys won't go but except for maybe Hines and Farrior I would shed a tear if any of the rest were let go.

Not sure of Hampton's value but he is essentially a two-down player and McLendon has come in and we haven't missed a beat. Get a rookie in the draft or a less expensive veteran through free agency.

Sorry to say but I think Hoke is done. I think he has been great for us and I have always preferred his style of play over Hampton's.

[steelz09]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

Colon signed a 5 year - $29M contract with a $6M SB. To cut him next year his cap hit will still be $4.8M which makes it that much less that you can give to Starks.

Steelers do not sign big time long term contracts and then cut the player the following year. That is a Washington Redskins move.

The big cap hits for 2012 with questionable value to the team are Ward ($4.6M), Hampton ($7M), Smith ($5M), Kemo ($4.4M), Foote ($3.6M) and Farrior ($3.8M). I don't include Colon and his $5M hit because cutting him would force too much dead money into 2012. I think you have to dump the others though even though you will eat some dead money. This team needs to get younger and free up some money for the rising stars not the fading ones.
The real driver will be what does it take to retain Mike Wallace. I'm thinking at least $7-8M per year. I also would break the standard procedure and get Antonio Brown under contract sooner rather than later but I doubt that happens.

Given those numbers I would say

Ward needs to renegotiate or he's gone
Hampton needs to renegotiate or he's gone (I don't think this happens)
Smith needs to be gone ... I love the guy but it is time
Kemo needs to be gone or at worst renegotiate
Foote has to reduce his price also ... he is a nice guy to have around in case of injuries
Farrior I'm okay with if he stays the starter otherwise he needs to renegotiate
Colon I wish we could cut but it's just not feasible for next year.

Where are we at with Ryan Clark? I think we need to trim some dollars off of his cap hit also. Mundy is starting to play better and better.

I agree w/ all of these .... Hampton absolutely needs to take a cut and Farrior should to (and he probably will) as well as Clark and Ward.

The Steelers signed a lot of their big money guys last offseason. If the money coming off the books next year (see above), they should be able to resign guys like Starks and Wallace. They won't let Brown walk either.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

what put colon out for the season?

i thought it was the same injury... achilles?

[focosteeler]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

what put colon out for the season?

i thought it was the same injury... achilles?

i believe it was a torn triceps this time

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

oh yeah
that was it

thanks

[steeler_george]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

This year we select offense in the first round. As we usually do, alternate from Defense to offense in the first round. Now this is just a theory, not saying it set in stone.

If there is a premier tackle still left on he board, could it be the end of Starks, and maybe not this year, but next year, the end of the line for Colon.

As desperate we are at Guard, I think the mix of leg, foster, dare to say Essex, and this year rookie Scott ( don't forget the coaching staff was big on him in the pre-seaon, till he was overwhelmed in the preseason games) might be adequate, but not a dream scenario for next year.

from left to right:

Gilbert-Leg-Pouncey-Foster-Colon back up guards: Scott, Essex ( i hate him though), tackles : Rookie, Scott, Essex

As thankful for being able to pick up Starks, he is going to take the Hotels roll.

[7 UP]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

[quote=JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Colon was playing his best football before his injury this year.

???
Colon hardly played this year--his injury happened so early on, I can barely remember that he was around.

He had a holding call and a false start in Baltimore before getting hurt.

Just some FYI..Everyone knocks his false starts. It is easy to ridicule if you never played football or never played OL. I can't imagine what it is like on the NFL level especially on the road. An OG or C has NO excuse. Plain and simple. For an OT...People do realize that on the road the OTs struggle to hear the cadence and can't see the ball out of their peripheral vision because of their deeper set? Any being a shorter OT doesn't help seeing the C out of the corner of your eye. So the OT is going off the G movement if he can't hear. Or cheating (which at the pro level a vet DL/OLB will catch you looking) and you go off your guys movement. The guy rushing has clear sight of ball and goes on movement. That is why many times you see the OT flinch with a twitch from the rusher. Caught him! Many times even when he can hear the OT tries to anticipate and get out as quick as the rusher. So as much as it pi$$es the average fan off...Some of us can appreciate the penalty. You hate to see it..But you know what is going on. You can give them a pass for one or maybe two on the road or against a premier rusher. Man you guys are brutal. I bet the majority of us in here wouldn't even get a hand on the rusher who is coming off the edge even if you knew ahead of time he was going to peel the corner on you. These are the worlds best athletes...Little things help in success.

That being said…I do not believe Colon will be released if he is healthy. Is there any logic to releasing a healthy player you just signed a multi year deal and send him to the street with 4 million dollars? Wow...Who forgot about the business side here. The same people who worked to give him that big contract are the same people that will have to walk in Rooney's office and say they are sending a healthy player to the street with 4 million of his dollars. Really? Who thinks that is something that will happen. He got that big contract based on his onfield production before this year. The FO saw fit to reward him yet the fans think he is garbage. If he is healthy...Colon is here. At worst case if he is healthy, the Steelers will ask him where he wants to be traded to but do they real have enough quality OL to do that? It is ridiculous to think the Steelers will get rid of one of their best OL, if he is healthy, who they just signed to a big contract because he didn't play this year and they have someone who filled in for him and performed at a high level.[/quote:1s9fehp1]

Not to call you out, but this is the dumbest thing Ive ever read and there is absolutely zero truth to what you just said. I played OT all through my High School career and I have coached OL for several years since I stopped playing. False starts happen to those who struggle in pass protection. Willie struggles so badly with his footwork, that he has trouble getting set in pass protection. He leaves early because he consistently gets beat off the ball. When you get beat off the ball in pass protection, that leaves you off balance. When you are off balance in pass protection you are susceptible to the bull rush. What your doing is calling making excuses for a guy. He false starts because he cant hear? Cmon man.

[7 UP]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

As for the business side of Willie Colon, he will be here. The Steelers love Willie Colon. They always have. From his rookie year they have always raved about the guy. I have no doubt that The Steelers will leave Starks high and dry once again for Colon.

The Steelers may quite possibly be the worst judge of OL talent in the entire league. I never understood what they saw in Colon. I never will understand. The sad thing about the Colon contract is there were no other teams even interested in Willie. Colons agent issued a statement that Willie had an offer from the Chiefs. It was shortly after that the Steelers signed him. My opinion is if Willie had not signed here he would be out of the league. Nobody wanted him. What does that tell you? Unfortunately now we are stuck with the guy.

[WindyCitySteel]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

As for the business side of Willie Colon, he will be here. The Steelers love Willie Colon. They always have. From his rookie year they have always raved about the guy. I have no doubt that The Steelers will leave Starks high and dry once again for Colon.

The Steelers may quite possibly be the worst judge of OL talent in the entire league. I never understood what they saw in Colon. I never will understand. The sad thing about the Colon contract is there were no other teams even interested in Willie. Colons agent issued a statement that Willie had an offer from the Chiefs. It was shortly after that the Steelers signed him. My opinion is if Willie had not signed here he would be out of the league. Nobody wanted him. What does that tell you? Unfortunately now we are stuck with the guy.

Great post. If we release Starks for Colon and lose him for the year again, someone needs to lose their job.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

Not to call you out, but this is the dumbest thing Ive ever read and there is absolutely zero truth to what you just said. I played OT all through my High School career and I have coached OL for several years since I stopped playing. False starts happen to those who struggle in pass protection. Willie struggles so badly with his footwork, that he has trouble getting set in pass protection. He leaves early because he consistently gets beat off the ball. When you get beat off the ball in pass protection, that leaves you off balance. When you are off balance in pass protection you are susceptible to the bull rush. What your doing is calling making excuses for a guy. He false starts because he cant hear? Cmon man.

You did call me out. I played OL from pee wee, high school, & college. Just on the college level there is a huge jump from high school and I didn't play any D1 football. I coach now too. There is absolute truth to what I say. I never had any problem in a high school game hearing the cadence so you can't use that as any comparison. False starts happen for many reasons and one is what you said. However, if you are telling me you played football and coach football and can say Colon is not any good...Then you show what you really know. ALL OT try to get out quick...It's the NFL. Who can get out late and hold his own. "C'mon man!" Your evaluation of pass pro is high school level. From college level you develop the kickslide to open to the defender while not bending at the waist...bend at the knees, while keeping your back positioned, slide and punch. The pupose of this is to maintain balance for leverage and maintaining change of direction ability...Keeping your weight over your feet. Of course when you are off balance you are suspect to getting bulled. That is football and nothing new. You just described something that has nothing to do with Colon. Colon's better skill is his ability to maintain his balance and not get bulled. Colon's balance is far above average. What he does get exposed to sometimes is with his restarting his kickslide to beat the defender to the edge when he pulls up or redirecting himself when the inside counter comes. I didn't say all his false starts come form not hearing and am making no excuses. Talk about the dumbest thing I have ever read and absolutely zero truth. You could hear the cadence from the stands in highschool games...Really not any comparison. You will never hear that excuse from an OL to bait the crowd. But it is no secret either...That is talked about all over the league and is nothing new. Crowd noise has a huge impact on OT getting out.

[7 UP]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

[quote=JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Not to call you out, but this is the dumbest thing Ive ever read and there is absolutely zero truth to what you just said. I played OT all through my High School career and I have coached OL for several years since I stopped playing. False starts happen to those who struggle in pass protection. Willie struggles so badly with his footwork, that he has trouble getting set in pass protection. He leaves early because he consistently gets beat off the ball. When you get beat off the ball in pass protection, that leaves you off balance. When you are off balance in pass protection you are susceptible to the bull rush. What your doing is calling making excuses for a guy. He false starts because he cant hear? Cmon man.

You did call me out. I played OL from pee wee, high school, & college. Just on the college level there is a huge jump from high school and I didn't play any D1 football. I coach now too. There is absolute truth to what I say. I never had any problem in a high school game hearing the cadence so you can't use that as any comparison. False starts happen for many reasons and one is what you said. However, if you are telling me you played football and coach football and can say Colon is not any good...Then you show what you really know. ALL OT try to get out quick...It's the NFL. Who can get out late and hold his own. "C'mon man!" Your evaluation of pass pro is high school level. From college level you develop the kickslide to open to the defender while not bending at the waist...bend at the knees, while keeping your back positioned, slide and punch. The pupose of this is to maintain balance for leverage and maintaining change of direction ability...Keeping your weight over your feet. Of course when you are off balance you are suspect to getting bulled. That is football and nothing new. You just described something that has nothing to do with Colon. Colon's better skill is his ability to maintain his balance and not get bulled. Colon's balance is far above average. What he does get exposed to sometimes is with his restarting his kickslide to beat the defender to the edge when he pulls up or redirecting himself when the inside counter comes. I didn't say all his false starts come form not hearing and am making no excuses. Talk about the dumbest thing I have ever read and absolutely zero truth. You could hear the cadence from the stands in highschool games...Really not any comparison.[/quote:2uofdgxo]


Gee its funny how all the other tackles in the league can hear the cadence except for Willie. Max Starks and Gilbert arent having a problem hearing. Oh thats right they can hear because they are tall. A D2 stadium is not freaking Heinz Field, nor is it even close. So you have no more idea than I do what the noise level may or may not be like on an NFL field. You are totally reaching here, and frankly making yourself look silly. If what you say is true lets all take up a collection to get Colon a hearing aid for next season, because the guy needs all the help he can get.

[7 UP]

Re: Should we keep Willie Colon or let him go?

By the way I have been to several D2 stadiums. NONE of them even slightly compared to a D1 stadium let alone an NFL stadium. As a matter of fact alot of them pretty much are High School stadiums. Im sorry that you had so much trouble hearing during your playing days though. I never had that problem.