"It's scary how good Ben can be"

[Crash]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

wow... talk about p'noid? Now Ben will become Palmer if he throws a few passes away?

No, I'm saying I would rather have my QB try and play football instead of being a scared rabbit like Palmer was against the Jets.

Look at it like this, AFC title game, 3rd down and Super Bowl to go.

Ben used his mobility and waited for Brown to get open, they converted. Now what do you think happens on the same play if that were Palmer? He would chucked it to the sidelines at the first sign of trouble like he always does.

But hey, he didn't get sacked right?

Until we realize that 1975 football does not work anymore, and the 2-3 TE sets are whats killing this offense and it needs to be scrapped? This is who we are. Only the staff can change it.

What's also funny is Brady's offense throws a lot of WR screens and quick passes. We threw a lot of those types of passes in SB XLV (especially to Wallace) to avoid their pass rush and people were still bitching.

Arians and Ben, will never win with some people.

[feltdizz]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

wow... talk about p'noid? Now Ben will become Palmer if he throws a few passes away?

No, I'm saying I would rather have my QB try and play football instead of being a scared rabbit like Palmer was against the Jets.

Look at it like this, AFC title game, 3rd down and Super Bowl to go.

Ben used his mobility and waited for Brown to get open, they converted. Now what do you think happens on the same play if that were Palmer? He would chucked it to the sidelines at the first sign of trouble like he always does.

But hey, he didn't get sacked right?

Until we realize that 1975 football does not work anymore, and the 2-3 TE sets are whats killing this offense and it needs to be scrapped? This is who we are. Only the staff can change it.

What's also funny is Brady's offense throws a lot of WR screens and quick passes. We threw a lot of those types of passes in SB XLV (especially to Wallace) to avoid their pass rush and people were still bitching.

Arians and Ben, will never win with some people.

Ben isn't Palmer... it makes zero sense to put the 2 in the same scenario.

We aren't talking about the 2 or 3 key plays that Ben converted... everyone uses the 5 amazing plays from the season as proof Ben should never throw the ball away.

When Ben does throw the ball away do you call him a sissy or a Palmer wannabe?

Some fans want Ben to play the way he does while taking less hits to extend his career. When we are playing Cleveland after clinching a playoff spot Ben shouldn't get carted off the field on a stretcher. While some say "Ben is who he is.." we have seen Ben's game evolve over the years... however you seem to talk about Ben like he hasn't improved at all and he had all the pieces in place from day 1.

No one complained about Ben taking sacks in SBXLV or the pass plays we used.

Seems to me like you are taking any critique of Ben's game to heart.

Ben throwing the ball away a few times doesn't make him Carson Palmer...
Ben running for a first down doesn't make him Michael Vick...

[Crash]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

The entire "Ben gets sacked because he holds the ball too long" is a farce. MOST of the time he's sacked or hit? The OL is beaten before Ben is even done with his drop back.

MOST of the big hits Ben has taken are in the pocket, in fact when he's running around he's rarely hit.

The only way to "extend" Ben's career and not have him take as many hits as he does it to eliminate the problem: Predictability based on formations.

When Spaeth and Johnson are gone, and we finally go three wide with Miller as a base offense and Ben is named All Pro with our top 5 offense? Don't say I didn't warn you, because it will happen.

[grotonsteel]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

Back on topic, the verdict seems pretty clear from this analysis. The high sack count is resulting from Ben holding on to the ball too long. Maybe, just maybe, our offensive line is not as bad in pass protection as we perceived. The problem is that I do not believe there is a cure for this problem. Ben's game is designed around him extending the play and he is not going to change that. Sometimes it results in a sack, but sometimes it results in a 40+ yard bomb. We will all have to continue to keep our heart medicine nearby while watching the Steelers games.

[url="http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/2/26/2012517/who-should-the-pittsburgh-steelers-blame-for-all-these-sacks"]http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... hese-sacks[/url]

I think we need O-line upgrade based on how Steelers play. Steelers offense is vertical and with mobile QB we need athletic linemen. Pouncey is a start. Steelers don't believe in dink-dunk passes. Steelers run the ball more than any other team and if Ben starts throwing 4 yards passes on top of 25 run attempts/game Steelers offense will be a complete mess.

I don't want that dink-and-dunk or throw the ball away offense. Its stupid offense.

[Crash]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

I like the WR screens, I like the slants, I like when we do that and I'm sure Ben does too. MOST of the time when we go deep is on first down from the opponents 45 or in. And if we get a first down from the opponent 45 and come back from commercial? We throw to the endzone.

The problem we have is first down with Speath and or Johnson? It's a run play.

2nd and 10? Out goes the TEs and in come the wides, pass play.

Now if I know this? The opponent does too. With three wide as a base you have no friggin' clue whats coming.

That, and Field Turf, is what we need. Now.

[Blockhead]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

The entire "Ben gets sacked because he holds the ball too long" is a farce. MOST of the time he's sacked or hit? The OL is beaten before Ben is even done with his drop back.

MOST of the big hits Ben has taken are in the pocket, in fact when he's running around he's rarely hit.

The only way to "extend" Ben's career and not have him take as many hits as he does it to eliminate the problem: Predictability based on formations.

When Spaeth and Johnson are gone, and we finally go three wide with Miller as a base offense and Ben is named All Pro with our top 5 offense? Don't say I didn't warn you, because it will happen.

It's not a farce. It has been proven. Ben has the 2nd most sacks after holding the ball over 3 seconds in the league, next to Flacco.

Many times when he is hit he had time to get rid of the ball and either held it or waited or pumpfaked meaninglessly.

If he could process and read defenses quicker, he'd be such a better QB.

[Crash]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

The entire "Ben gets sacked because he holds the ball too long" is a farce. MOST of the time he's sacked or hit? The OL is beaten before Ben is even done with his drop back.

MOST of the big hits Ben has taken are in the pocket, in fact when he's running around he's rarely hit.

The only way to "extend" Ben's career and not have him take as many hits as he does it to eliminate the problem: Predictability based on formations.

When Spaeth and Johnson are gone, and we finally go three wide with Miller as a base offense and Ben is named All Pro with our top 5 offense? Don't say I didn't warn you, because it will happen.

It's not a farce. It has been proven. Ben has the 2nd most sacks after holding the ball over 3 seconds in the league, next to Flacco.

Many times when he is hit he had time to get rid of the ball and either held it or waited or pumpfaked meaninglessly.

If he could process and read defenses quicker, he'd be such a better QB.

Hi 43. Enjoy your brief stay.

[feltdizz]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

Back on topic, the verdict seems pretty clear from this analysis. The high sack count is resulting from Ben holding on to the ball too long. Maybe, just maybe, our offensive line is not as bad in pass protection as we perceived. The problem is that I do not believe there is a cure for this problem. Ben's game is designed around him extending the play and he is not going to change that. Sometimes it results in a sack, but sometimes it results in a 40+ yard bomb. We will all have to continue to keep our heart medicine nearby while watching the Steelers games.

[url="http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/2/26/2012517/who-should-the-pittsburgh-steelers-blame-for-all-these-sacks"]http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... hese-sacks[/url]

I think we need O-line upgrade based on how Steelers play. Steelers offense is vertical and with mobile QB we need athletic linemen. Pouncey is a start. Steelers don't believe in dink-dunk passes. Steelers run the ball more than any other team and if Ben starts throwing 4 yards passes on top of 25 run attempts/game Steelers offense will be a complete mess.

I don't want that dink-and-dunk or throw the ball away offense. Its stupid offense.

It's not stupid football it's football the way it's supposed to be played.

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them? What's wrong with dink and dunk and the vertical?

This offense will be scary good if we incorporate more passes to Mend in the flat and let the RB's and WR's run for 1st downs instead of waiting for them to get past the marker and then throwing the ball.

Our O isn't half bad but part of the reason we get so frustrated with the O every year is because we keep trying to go vertical when the short stuff is available. We shortened the drops and went to quicker passes and had more success later in the year.

[Blockhead]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

Hi 43. Enjoy your brief stay.

What's that GuySmiley7?

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

10 of those sacks came in the first 3 games (leaving tampa out cause we built a big lead and didnt have to pass much)

in case anyone forgot, Ben didnt play in those games

[Crash]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them?

On 3rd and 10? The minute Ben does that on a consistent basis? It's time to replace him. Kordell used to do that all the time and then come off the field smiling like he just threw a 50 yard bomb.

[feltdizz]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them?

On 3rd and 10? The minute Ben does that on a consistent basis? It's time to replace him. Kordell used to do that all the time and then come off the field smiling like he just threw a 50 yard bomb.

On 3rd and 10 and in FG range... yes, take the 4 yard pass unless it's a 7 point game and there is 4 seconds left on the clock and it's the SB and a meteor is about to hit earth and we know this will be the last pass we will ever see.

why does every suggestion of Ben throwing a pass away or throwing short of the 1st down lead to him being some scrub QB?

Ben has thrown the ball away before and his number didn't change.. he didn't become black and he definitely didn't become a Bengal.

[feltdizz]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

10 of those sacks came in the first 3 games (leaving tampa out cause we built a big lead and didnt have to pass much)

in case anyone forgot, Ben didnt play in those games

3 games? The ole FWP stat calculator?

[grotonsteel]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

Back on topic, the verdict seems pretty clear from this analysis. The high sack count is resulting from Ben holding on to the ball too long. Maybe, just maybe, our offensive line is not as bad in pass protection as we perceived. The problem is that I do not believe there is a cure for this problem. Ben's game is designed around him extending the play and he is not going to change that. Sometimes it results in a sack, but sometimes it results in a 40+ yard bomb. We will all have to continue to keep our heart medicine nearby while watching the Steelers games.

[url="http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/2/26/2012517/who-should-the-pittsburgh-steelers-blame-for-all-these-sacks"]http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... hese-sacks[/url]

I think we need O-line upgrade based on how Steelers play. Steelers offense is vertical and with mobile QB we need athletic linemen. Pouncey is a start. Steelers don't believe in dink-dunk passes. Steelers run the ball more than any other team and if Ben starts throwing 4 yards passes on top of 25 run attempts/game Steelers offense will be a complete mess.

I don't want that dink-and-dunk or throw the ball away offense. Its stupid offense.

It's not stupid football it's football the way it's supposed to be played.

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them? What's wrong with dink and dunk and the vertical?

This offense will be scary good if we incorporate more passes to Mend in the flat and let the RB's and WR's run for 1st downs instead of waiting for them to get past the marker and then throwing the ball.

Our O isn't half bad but part of the reason we get so frustrated with the O every year is because we keep trying to go vertical when the short stuff is available. We shortened the drops and went to quicker passes and had more success later in the year.

The part we are frustrated is not the vertical stuff but the running game and predictable play calling or the red zone. Steelers never had problem moving the ball NEVER. Its the red zone offense which is killing this Offense. Dink and dunk offense is not going to cure that.


When your RB is going be No.1 WR you are not going to win much. As far as WR making plays can you tell me which WR on Steelers have great YAC?? Definately not hines ward or Mike Wallace.

You can't expect to have dink dunk offense if you are planning to throw ball 25 times. And you definately don't want to throw 4 yards passes on 3rd and 20.

YPA for QB matters a lot. Teams having QB with great YPA are always successful.

[grotonsteel]

Re: "It's scary how good Ben can be"

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them?

On 3rd and 10? The minute Ben does that on a consistent basis? It's time to replace him. Kordell used to do that all the time and then come off the field smiling like he just threw a 50 yard bomb.

On 3rd and 10 and in FG range... yes, take the 4 yard pass

How many times Ben has taken a sack in red zone??? Do you have any statistics on that??? I can't imagine it will be more than 2-3 times.Again i maybe wrong on that but i don't recollect more than 2-3 times.