Ben isn't underthrowing Wallace

[SteelAbility]

Re: Ben isn't underthrowing Wallace

It may have been explained enough, but I don't think it has been explained properly is the real problem

I don't need the physics lesson. I understand that accuracy is limited the more you try to put on the ball.

Say what you want. It doesn't matter if I believe you or not. The fact is that every time Wallace runs that deep route, and Ben throws him the ball, it comes up short. It is underthrown. If he wants to hold on to the ball that long and still hit that receiver, then he needs to put more on the ball. PERIOD. If he can't do it accurately, then stop trying to make that kind of a play. The real problem is that they keep dialing it up time and time again. I guess they are hoping for the penalty, because Ben isn't going to hit Wallace that deep. (without him coming back to the ball to make the catch) I don't believe he has the arm. If he did, then he would know, the longer you hold the ball, the more you will need to put on it to get it to where it needs to be. If you can't do it, stop doing it......unless you really believe that you can get the penalty.

Ok, here's how I see it. The lateness of the throw is straining the situation and reducing the likelihood of a connection. Since Ben is late with the throw he has to choose EITHER north-south distance OR east-west accuracy. That's the whole point. Once he waits beyond a certain point in time, he simply can't have both. He is choosing east-west accuracy at the expense of N-S distance. So, the passes are coming up short. If he was getting the distance on it, he'd be off to the right or left (unless he gets lucky). Then we'd be complaining about the accuracy. The solution is a more timely throw where he's not stuck in EITHER-OR but has more BOTH-AND at his disposal. Don't abandon the play. Adjust the play.

Another possible solution is the "underthrown deep ball" where the QB-WR absolutely have to be on the same page where they understand the WR will come back for it once he has driven the defender to commit to racing. This is particularly effective in one-on-one coverage.

[NorthCoast]

Re: Ben isn't underthrowing Wallace

Underthrow?

How about the passes that he clearly overshot the receiver? I'm thinking Heath who was wide open near the sideline towards the end of the game and one or two passes over the receivers' heads in the endzone?

I thought to myself that he's over reacting for fear of an INT...he's being intimidated by the secondary...

Just my

I suspect this overthrow was a direct result of having 3 batted passes. He was trying to get it over the hands of the DL.

I agree with others that it is more a timing thing than an underthrow. Yes, the result is the same, but the correction is completely different. Ben needs to see space between a WR and the DB before it lets it go, that's why he does all the pump fakes. Cinci played a lot of man coverage (and tight) which probably had Ben off his game since it required some trust that his receiver would go up to get the ball. This is where a Sweed that can actually catch the ball would be great to throw to.

[Steeler Mafia]

Re: Ben isn't underthrowing Wallace

It may have been explained enough, but I don't think it has been explained properly is the real problem

I don't need the physics lesson. I understand that accuracy is limited the more you try to put on the ball.

Say what you want. It doesn't matter if I believe you or not. The fact is that every time Wallace runs that deep route, and Ben throws him the ball, it comes up short. It is underthrown. If he wants to hold on to the ball that long and still hit that receiver, then he needs to put more on the ball. PERIOD. If he can't do it accurately, then stop trying to make that kind of a play. The real problem is that they keep dialing it up time and time again. I guess they are hoping for the penalty, because Ben isn't going to hit Wallace that deep. (without him coming back to the ball to make the catch) I don't believe he has the arm. If he did, then he would know, the longer you hold the ball, the more you will need to put on it to get it to where it needs to be. If you can't do it, stop doing it......unless you really believe that you can get the penalty.

Not to sound belligerent, but apparently you do need the physics lesson. That's the whole point. The lateness of the throw is straining the situation and reducing the likelihood of a connection. Since Ben is late with the throw he has to choose EITHER north-south distance OR east-west accuracy. Once he waits beyond a certain point in time, he simply can't have both. He is choosing east-west accuracy at the expense of N-S distance. So, the passes are coming up short. The solution is a more timely throw where he's not stuck in EITHER-OR but has more BOTH-AND at his disposal.

If I go by what you are saying, neither of our arguements hold water and it is Ben's decision making that is the problem. He is the one that decides to hold on the the ball and he is also the one that will decide if he should throw that ball or not, knowing that he has held on to it for that given time. If he understands that he ran out of time and can't make that long throw now, why throw it at all, unless you are trying to get the PI call. Whether you all like it or not, he does decide to throw the ball regardless of the time he has held on to it, and it consistanly comes up short. A.K.A Underthrown. IF HE CAN'T MAKE THE THROW, DON'T THROW THE BALL. THIS IS WHAT YOU ALL ARE NOT GETTING. I don't care what is causing the problem, I am just telling you about the end result, an underthrown ball. It doesn't matter to me if he is doing it on purpose or what other conflicts get in his way. Every one of these passes that Ben has thrown, regardelss of him holding on to the ball or not, have been short of target. He can hit the rest of the passes all day long, but the bombs are not in his arsenal. The rest is just icing to make some of you sleep better at night. Is it because Wallace is too fast...maybe. Is it bacause they need to work on their timing more...maybe. Ben has been around Ward and Holmes longer and knows what he can and can't throw to them. Is it becasue he holds on the the ball too long...could be as well. There have been other times that he has had the time and it was still short armed it to Wallace. The simple fact still stands. Of THESE throws, the long bombs to Wallace, they are always short of target. Even if Wallace does manage to catch the ball, it is because he had to come back to it to make the play.

[eniparadoxgma]

Re: Ben isn't underthrowing Wallace

Underthrow?

How about the passes that he clearly overshot the receiver? I'm thinking Heath who was wide open near the sideline towards the end of the game and one or two passes over the receivers' heads in the endzone?

I thought to myself that he's over reacting for fear of an INT...he's being intimidated by the secondary...

Just my

I was going to bring that up. IMO Ben usually underthrows (or waits too late...whichever lol) but he clearly overthrew a couple of deep balls on Sunday. Maybe he just isn't that good with long balls period?

It's another reason I thought those last few offensive plays of ours made no sense. You have time to throw under the coverage and march down the field...plus Ben was off on the deep passes...so you decide to try to air it out? I don't get it.

[proudpittsburgher]

Re: Ben isn't underthrowing Wallace

I brought this up in a thread earlier, but does anyone buy into my theory that ben doesn't get the ball out early enough to wallace because wallace isn't the primary reciever on the route, so by the time ben gets around to him in his progressions, Wallace is too far down the field, and too fast to get the ball ahead of. Maybe if the play was designed for wallace in the first place, he would be the first read, and Ben might be able to get it to him sooner and hit him in stride? Just my $.02.

[MeetJoeGreene]

Re: Ben isn't underthrowing Wallace

I brought this up in a thread earlier, but does anyone buy into my theory that ben doesn't get the ball out early enough to wallace because wallace isn't the primary reciever on the route, so by the time ben gets around to him in his progressions, Wallace is too far down the field, and too fast to get the ball ahead of. Maybe if the play was designed for wallace in the first place, he would be the first read, and Ben might be able to get it to him sooner and hit him in stride? Just my $.02.

That could be. Another thought came to my mind. Wallace didn't come into camp as the #3 (that was Sweed). So Ben may not have worked with him that much in camp to really know him. I have a feeling that NEXT year - after they go through an off-season and camp with Ben and Wallace gettting more reps, that combination will be DEVASTATING>

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Ben isn't underthrowing Wallace

He's not throwing it SOON enough. Instead of trusting that Wallace is going to beat his man and throwing it so he can run under it, he waits until Wallace HAS beat his man and then throws it.

By then it is too late because he can't throw it far enough and with enough velocity. That means Wallace has to slow down which allows the defender to catch up.

Underthrowing is when a guy is in your range and you don't reach him. That's not what is happening with Ben. He's throwing it late because he's waiting too long.

It's no different than a deep out...if the QB throws it just as the WR makes his break the ball should get there on time and beat the coverage. If the QB waits then the DB can get there to make a play.

Before responding just think about it for a minute and you'll understand what I'm getting at.

Anyway, hopefully Ben and Wallace can get this worked out soon. If Ben can hit Wallace in stride on a 20-30 yard pass that would be deadly.

I understand what you are saying but it is all semantics dude.

I cannot throw a 60 yard pass period.
If I attempt to do so I will UNDERTHROW my receiver.
Sure, If I throw earlier (much earlier) I can complete the pass.
The fact remains that if I attempt to hit a receiver 60 yards deep I will UNDERTHROW him

What you are saying is that Ben needs to throw SOONER to correct the problem. Nobody disagrees.
But to say it is incorrect to say Ben is underthrowing Wallace it simply wrong. He most certainly IS underthrowing Wallace.

[stlrz d]

Re: Ben isn't underthrowing Wallace

Forget it...I give up.


Glad some folks understand the difference.