Planet Mock Commentary.

[pfelix73]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

No offense taken, but your picks aren't exactly realistic.....

Your knowledge of what goes on along the OL is minimal.

Here's the obvious. AND THIS IS FROM COLBERT AS WELL. He has said that with the signings of Starks, Kemo, Essex, and Colon we are NOT in a great need at OL at this point.

But the fan base keeps saying so..... so, I guess keep doing what you are doing... Gonna pick a OT in the 4th?

[WoodleyofTroy]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

No offense taken, but your picks aren't exactly realistic.....

Your knowledge of what goes on along the OL is minimal.

Here's the obvious. AND THIS IS FROM COLBERT AS WELL. He has said that with the signings of Starks, Kemo, Essex, and Colon we are NOT in a great need at OL at this point.

But the fan base keeps saying so..... so, I guess keep doing what you are doing... Gonna pick a OT in the 4th?

Lost: Kendall Simmons, Marvel Smith

Starks - free agent next year
Colon - free agent next year
Stapleton - free agent next year
Hartwig - free agent next year
Essex - free agent 2011

Not to mention, these aren't the greatest set of talents. But yeah you're right, bringing in potential difference makers in Mack and Urbik would just be completely pointless.

[WoodleyofTroy]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

And I didn't pick them because they were "OL". I don't go by the position theory like you. I look at the names, who has the best chance of being a great pro (aka BPA).

What DL would you have taken over Kraig Urbik in round 3?

[pfelix73]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

Stapleton could replace Hartwig
Starks could be re-signed or even franchised again
Hills or Essex could replace Colon or Colon could be re-signed.

I agree that a OL should be taken somewhere in the first 3 rounds. Just not multiple linemen. In fact, 1 OL in the whole draft would be fine with me. Why pick many and then just cut them in camp? A veteran team doesn't have too many spots on its roster for all of these OL many on here this board want to take. In reality only about 8 OL will make the 53 man roster in the end.

Starks
Stapleton
Hartwig
Kemo
Colon
Essex

That's already 6 locked in.

That leaves Hills, Capizzi and Parquet to compete with any rookies brought in... Then the practice squad. Hills is practically in on that 6 to make it 7. Capizzi is a good young T. I don't know much about butter, I mean Parquet.

That's why I would think that 1 rook would be ideal especially if you're talking the upper 4 -5 rounds of the draft. A FA or 2 after the draft just to fill out the roster will be fine for camp.

Shipley out of PSU or even a Green out of Auburn could be had with the later pick in round 3 or 4.

I will say this- I liked your pick with the CB. In fact, if you just replace Mack with Brace I'd like your picks then. You got a G in round 3 then that would be it for OL.

[BigBen2112]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

And I didn't pick them because they were "OL". I don't go by the position theory like you. I look at the names, who has the best chance of being a great pro (aka BPA).

What DL would you have taken over Kraig Urbik in round 3?

This is one of the most odd conversations I have, or rather have been minimally, a part of. Realistically Urbik is the #2 rated OG in the 2009 NFL draft. He's played two positions, G and T, and has been good at both. Its not on PROJECTION ALONE that he projects as either a G or T...he's actually physically played them. There isn't a top 10 DE available currently, or during the time the Steelers were selecting in the 3rd...There are a couple good/decent DTs (dont really want to talk about names since this draft is still ongoing). But there is not a player better at his position than Urbik currently available. So what's the problem here again?

I mean if you really want to get down to it the Steelers in this draft have gone BPA and gotten players who make sense and make them better at positions of need. Is Mahan, err...Harwig, the future of this team at C? I think not...and I certainly hope not. Anyone who actually WATCHED this team last year has to realize this OL is not very good...Mike Tomlin sure has heck did when he called out the OL! The only thing I MIGHT, and I stress MIGHT, change is I might have taken Darrius Butler in the 1st, Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd on a slight reach, and Urbik in the 3rd...but we'd be sitting here now with no 4th round pick and no center of the future...or is that Stapleton? Overall, WoT has done a great job selecting VALUE players at the positions this team needs and getting the BPA with each selection.

For the rest of the draft, which we'll get to...I personally would do: DT, OT, and DE...there are plenty of intriguing players later in this draft, there is good late(r) round depth at positions of "need" for the Steelers, where you can afford to take positions of need who are also BPA earlier in the draft.

The picks by WoT are very realistic...although the trade might not be LOL. If Mack is there at the end of the 1st and they dont take him that means a STUD has fallen...maybe like Brian Cushing, who I know WoT was pondering taking with the 1st pick b/c of the value he had there. Furthermore, the Steelers could very well take Urbik in the 2nd...and he has value there at the end of the 2nd round. We currently do not have a starting RG btw...Simmons is gone and they already stated that they wanted competition for Stapleton...so Urbik makes a TON of sense there.

Sorry that you think the OL is good and all...but the game film and stats prove you wrong.

[BigBen2112]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

Stapleton could replace Hartwig
Starks could be re-signed or even franchised again
Hills or Essex could replace Colon or Colon could be re-signed.

I agree that a OL should be taken somewhere in the first 3 rounds. Just not multiple linemen. In fact, 1 OL in the whole draft would be fine with me. Why pick many and then just cut them in camp? A veteran team doesn't have too many spots on its roster for all of these OL many on here this board want to take. In reality only about 8 OL will make the 53 man roster in the end.

Starks
Stapleton
Hartwig
Kemo
Colon
Essex

That's already 6 locked in.

That leaves Hills, Capizzi and Parquet to compete with any rookies brought in... Then the practice squad. Hills is practically in on that 6 to make it 7. Capizzi is a good young T. I don't know much about butter, I mean Parquet.

That's why I would think that 1 rook would be ideal especially if you're talking the upper 4 -5 rounds of the draft. A FA or 2 after the draft just to fill out the roster will be fine for camp.

Shipley out of PSU or even a Green out of Auburn could be had with the later pick in round 3 or 4.

I will say this- I liked your pick with the CB. In fact, if you just replace Mack with Brace I'd like your picks then. You got a G in round 3 then that would be it for OL.

Oh my god dude...Green out of Auburn was beaten like a rented mule all combine and Sr. Bowl long...no thank you on another OL who cant mirror the opponent.

And you talk about guys in Hills (horrific injury), Parquet, and Capizzi like they are the future of this team. They haven't even made the roster! How is Capizzi a good young OT? Did you read that on some website? Have you ever seen him? He couldn't make our roster. The three OL you've talked about...have exactly ZERO experience and don't actually profile as anything resembling Mack or Urbik...and they aren't even the same positions!

Furthermore, I dont even know of an OT in the NFL who is the height of Jason Capizzi. No wonder a knock on him has been flexion in the knees...no wonder he's been called a waste-bender instead of a knee-bender. The dude is 6'9...he's got 2-3 inches over every other OT and likely 3-4 inches, if not more, over the guys he'll be playing against. To gain proper leverage he's gotta get lower than they are...and he's going to be coming from a stance that already has him at a disadvantage over the DEs and OLBs...the only guy I can think of with his size is Jonathan Ogden, and I dont think you or anyone else is going to start comparing Jason Capizzi to Jonathan Ogden.

I think that you really need to think about TECHNIQUE when you're talking about some of these players instead of just looking at the roster and saying..."oh we have enough OL to full the roster spots...they're al good...lets not draft players who are likely better." There are teams with bigger issues than ours and with BETTER OLs than ours who drafted OL last year. Carolina, one of the best 5 OLs in the NFL, spent 3 picks on OL last year including their FIRST ROUND PICK on Jeff Otah...when they already had Travelle Wharton and Jordan Gross. Now they have 3 legitimate starting caliber OTs and they have the best OT in the NFL who isn't playing OT in Travelle Wharton. Miami has a better OL and they invested 3 picks in their OL last year as well...

The way you get a good OL is to get the pieces in place and to keep adding via the draft etc b/c of free agency and you never know what's going to happen.

You talk about Max Starks like he's signed long-term...which he's not. You mention franchising him...and what if they cant get a deal with Harrison? They can't franchise both...and Harrison needs to be kept more than Starks. You draft BPA and look at positions of need in an attempt to constantly be building. How have the Steelers been able to always have good linebackers? Well they draft a TON of them and develop them well...they need to start taking the same approach with OL b/c if you think that Ben Roethlisberger is going to continually take 50+ sacks per year and have a career as long and productive as he should and is capable of having then you're going to end up being wrong. Troy Aikman should have been able to play another 3-4 years easiliy...he was only 34 when he had to retire...but hadn't even played as long as Peyton Manning has.

You build by building...not by leaving the pieces to rot and wither away...the Pittsburgh Steelers, if they want to keep their dominance, need to rebuild and continually be building the trenches...or they're going to wind up weak and feeble at the positions that used to be an area of strength for them.

You dont pass up Mack and Urbik when they are the BPA and address a need area...at least not if you want a respectable OL.

And another thing...why the hell do you like Ron Brace so much when he's a 2nd rounder? Why do you want to reach and take him when you dont even know if his production was real or due to the fact that he had an amazing DT next to him. People will mention Casey Hampton and Shaun Rogers...yeah well Brace wasn't THAT good...and actually BJ Raji destroyed his numbers...and you gotta love the fact that the one big knock on Brace is that he hasn't faced many double-teams so you dont know how he'll do with that...exactly what you want from a 34 DT right? Why reach for him in the 1st? You really think he's THAT much better than Terrance Taylor? The stats dont think so and they also show the truth that Taylor was the main man in the middle for Michigan while Brace never was that main man. Im not saying that stats tell the whole story but...if what you're saying is to reach for a player like Brace who wouldn't be the BPA in order to pass on a center with the talent of a Nick Mangold...not sure I'll catch on with that idea.

[pfelix73]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

I've met and talked with Jason Capizzi at camp. He's a big boy and a good ball ball player. Yea, guys like him are our future......

Green has potential just like your guy from Wisconsin. Either way, we only need 1 OL in this draft. Not 3 or 4 or 5 like many of you on here think.

Grow up and get real down there at G-town.

[pfelix73]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

Urbik is rated #2 on 1 site, but on some sites further down the list. On one list, Johnson out of LSU is second. Don't know if I believe that either.

Why do many on here think that we need to use every draft pick on an OL?

LETS BE REALISTIC!

[pfelix73]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

As far as Ron Brace- where the hell do you think we are drafting? 32 is at the end of 1 and virtually a second round pick........ think.

Read some of Oviedo's comments on why we should be looking at someone like Brace. They are on other threads and I'm not going to repeat them.....

Your perception of our OL is totally different than mine. You do not agree with Colbert then? I do. What they decide they decide.....

I guess you were one of the ones last year that was buddying up with Ricker... Speaking of which where is he now? The one that was predicting an 8-8 finish primarily because of the OL's woes.....

[pfelix73]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

Talking about technique now with me?---- pretty funny. Who has div. 1 OL experience? I've played there. Granted it was a good time ago, but I did it. Been there, done that. I know a few things about technique...

Cohesiveness along the OL? Oh forget that, right?

[pfelix73]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

One last comment-

Look at my sig. No one wants another Dirt on this team more so than I.

However, with that said- guess who I'll take over ALL of your guys- Mr. Shipley out of Penn State. The kid is the 'real deal'.

[pfelix73]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

1 more last thing-

I know I know all about the BPA philosophy and totally agree with it. Could it be possible that some have Ron Brace rated ahead of Alex Mack? Ron Brace is rated by some as the #1 NG in this year's draft. Alex Mack as the #1 C too. Pretty close to being right about the same- IMO. Some cried fowl back when the Steelers chose Casey Hampton with the 20th overall pick saying it was way too early. People like the so-called draft experts.....Kiper to name 1....

The Steelers situation is as follows:

We have Hartwig and Stapleton backing him up, who could be the heir apparent....I hope not, however, as I'd like to see Shipley in there. Whom do we have behind Casey? Hokie's getting up there in age too...Therefore, I'd say that NG trumps C at this point.

Whatever- It's my opinion and I'm sticking with it....

[WoodleyofTroy]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

1 more last thing-

Could it be possible that some have Ron Brace rated ahead of Alex Mack?

No.

[WoodleyofTroy]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

Just in: Steelers are rumored to be considering an Offensive Tackle in Round 4.

[BigBen2112]

Re: Planet Mock Commentary.

To answer some of your comments pfelix...

1) No, I was not in camp with Rick thinking that we had no chance
2) No, I dont think we need 3...4...or 5 OL selections in this years' draft...I think two premium picks of guys like Mack, Urbik, or Tupou can solve a lot of our problems...and if you think a guy who is 6'2 and can't sustain blocks...and has a problem getting bull rushed in Green is good for our OL then I guess the discussion of the OL talent is over b/c that's more unrealistic than anything WoT or I have said
3) How in god's name do you think Capizzi and Parquet are the future of our team? What evidence do you have for that? I didn't notice that you talked at ALL about the technique stuff I mentioned...you just stated you've played before at Div 1...ok...cool...I have done draft analysis for a long time and some of my stuff is on premier sites...so now that the chest thumping is out of the way could we actually talk about technique? Because if you have something I could learn I'd be all for it.
4) I notice how you didn't address the fact that teams with good OLs have built those OLs up and are continuing to add pieces...so I will take that as you agreeing with my argument...so then I guess you dont want us to have a good OL?
5) You also did not address who was a better available player in the 3rd over Urbik...what DL would you have wanted? We already got a CB so there wasn't a need to take one of those...who was a better available player?
6) About the fact that Brace could be higher on someone's draft board than Mack...yeah...maybe Al Davis' board. But I dont much want a team that he's putting together. And no...I dont know of one site or one team that thinks that Ron Brace is the #1 DT in this years' draft. If you had Ron Brace and BJ Raji still available every single team in this years' draft will select Raji. Furthermore, Brace has a mid-2nd round grade...and the last time I checked the 32nd pick isnt in the 45-55 range...but you're right it is "almost a second" round pick just like the 31, 30, 29, 28, 27, 26, 25, 24...they're all closer to the second round than they are to the top of the first...so are they second round picks too?
7) You also have to look at THIS draft...the particular one we're conducting...and think about things...who was a better player available in the 1st? Brian Cushing? Yes, you may be 100% right about that...but it is the belief that the steelers really did not need to add another LB that high in the draft. The next player on the board was Mack...he was available and was taken. He was the best player available at a position that made sense for the Pittsburgh Steelers. If someone else was available the thought would have been different and thus the pick might have been as well. Actually the NEXT person on the draft board was Darrius Butler...and when he was available at the Green Bay pick in the 2nd round I got contacted by WoT to think about going up and getting him...which he succeeded in doing...he addressed a real, immediate need at the CB spot and also was a dynamic player who likely should not have been available
Depending on how the rest of THIS draft goes I think the Steelers will look at DT, DE, OT, WR, and possibly a FB/RB...but they'll be looking for the BPA for sure.
9) In the REAL draft...if the Steelers could come out of the real draft the way I would like them to then I'd personally be thrilled and the organization would have really done a superb job...I have us taking 1 C, 1G, 1 T, 1 DT, 2 DE, 1 CB, 1 WR, and 1 S...now you can argue with me if you'd like about not needing to take that many OL, but I have us taking just as many DL. Adding 3 guys to each side of the line could be extremely beneficial in terms of organizational depth...adding another WR, hopefully one more possession oriented, can only help the depth there as well...and adding a CB and S are almost musts as our depth and future at those positions are in question as well. If the Steelers only draft ONE OL then I will be extremely disappointed (depending on whether beasts just fell to them at every position and they didn't have a chance to draft OL b/c they drafted BPA) b/c in this draft we have plenty of picks to be spread around the different need areas this organization has. There is good depth on the OL, DL, and CB in this years' draft and the Steelers should, and MUST make GOOD use of that depth at positions of looming need.
10) I just like having even numbers....but I will address something here...people need to wake up about our OL. Yeah we won a SB with that unit, but it doesnt mean they're any good or that they're as good as they could be. We had a D that carried us ALL year as our offense was one of the bigger disappointments and underachievers in the NFL...and our OL played a big part of that. Talking about the center position...Hartwig, I do believe, was statistically one of the worst, if not the worst, center in the NFL. Now statistics do not tell the whole story, nor do they simply lie either. So lets look at what could be going on...A) He could really just be the worst starting center in the NFL, B) The players on both sides of him struggled and so he tried to compensate and thusly he struggled as well, C) The numbers are simply a fabricated lie made up by those haters who dont see the greatness of every player that is on the Pittsburgh Steelers roster, or D) A combination of the above. Well, looking at those...I'd say we have a need for interior OL. You talk about AQ Shipley...great...Im a huge PSU fan...he's a nice young player...however you dont pin all your draft on hopefully getting one guy. If Mack is there and someone else hasn't fallen how do you pass him up in HOPES that AQ Shipley will be around whenever you plan on selecting him later? The answer: you dont. Obviously our interior line needs an upgrade and in THIS draft the two best players at their interior line positions were selected. Good job to WoT!