Joel, Captain Lemming, North Coast, Northern_Blitz, Oviedo, Whisper

[hawaiiansteel]

Let me state the rules:

No personal attacks

you mean like this?

Is Feltdizz STILL ballwashing Bell? This relationship between the two has become disturbing.

[Bawb the Revelator]

It was like that to an extent under Cowher but they definitely brought in outside help too. Erhardt, Sherman, Gilbride, Capers, and Haslett were external guys. Lebeau, Whiz, Mularkey, Lewis and Gailey were internal guys. It’s almost dogmatic now, whereas it seemed like there were at least legit searches during the Cowher era. Haley is the only external guy to get a coordinator job in the Tomlin era.

Also, it was a little different under Cowher since he was employing a lot of future HCs whereas Arians is the only one in the Tomlin era that has even sniffed a HC job.

I suppose Austin and Canada were kind of external hires but they seemed to be anointed when they walked into the building. I don’t remember how many guys they interviewed for the DC job but the OC ‘search’ was a farce.

In my opinion, they’re promoting from within in the name of stability instead of leaning on the stability provided by Tomlin, Rooney, and Colbert (until this year anyway) and hiring the best guys for the other jobs. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

Tomlin was, is and always will be a slightly above average head coach.
The total of what he's done is to outlast Dan Rooney and Kevin Colbert.
Tomlin's "Baffle Them With Bull****" gift is TRIUMPHANT. Deal with it.

[hackjam]

I wish I knew the inner workings of the Steelers process to shed more light on the situation. To simply blame Tomlin for all of it isn't logical.

I know that Tomlin wants the offense to score more points. Tomlin has to consider the youth on offense. Tomlin's job is to put this team in a position to win games. Outside of one game he gave this team an opportunity to win. He can only attempt to correct mistakes. He can't go out there and execute for the players. He can't make the throws. He can't catch the INTs. He can't make the tackles. Ect.

Sure, but is 'failing to execute' a fundamentally flawed strategy actually an issue with execution? The Bay of Pigs would have been a success if only the damn boots on the ground would have executed better, right?!

[hackjam]

Why is it scary? Cowher was forced to draft Ben. The owner gets what he wants. So YOU are making this determination on one down season with a rookie QB starting. Brilliant!!!

Dan vs Art II. Football guy who made his bones in the business versus lawyer who had the team handed to him. Art II ain't a tenth of the football man that his father was.

[Bawb the Revelator]

If that’s true about Rooney forcing the Canada thing that’s scary. Dan grew up in the football business and built the Steelers into what they became over the past 50 years. He put in the work in scouting and personnel. He drafted guys, hired Noll, etc.

I think that to some extent, Art II is trying to copy the motions without understanding why the motions were there in the first place.

Do Planet Steelers members have lives elsewhere? I hope so.
Then read HackJam's post until its full meaning is very clear.
I'm old, overeducated and have a lot of free time and a full life.
If Tomlin's press conferences make your day, nothing can help you.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Sure, but is 'failing to execute' a fundamentally flawed strategy actually an issue with execution? The Bay of Pigs would have been a success if only the damn boots on the ground would have executed better, right?!

1st ball throw down the filed DJ was open. DJ beat the DB but KP threw a poorly thrown ball. Bad strategy or execution?

The Steelers failed to execute on offense. They missed on several opportunities vs the Phins.

We can agree that rookie QB's generally struggle to execute in the NFL. This is what the Steelers face on a weekly basis. The Steelers coaches are attempting to win games. The team had opportunities. Fans that are expecting more out of this offense are probably fooling themselves with a rookie QB and young offensive team. Maybe I am wrong?

[BURGH86STEEL]

Dan vs Art II. Football guy who made his bones in the business versus lawyer who had the team handed to him. Art II ain't a tenth of the football man that his father was.

Dan was handed the team too. Art II was around this team his entire life. He helped this organization make it to 3 Superbowls. I don't know what you are talking about.

[hawaiiansteel]

Let me state the rules:

No personal attacks

you mean like this?

Boy you two are foolish ; you constantly lie about what I think or say . It’s sad. You sit around and hold your dicks all day and squirt off at stuff you make up about me .

[Buzz]

Coaches need to do more to help out our rookie QB

https://steelersdepot.com/2022/10/trai-essex-steelers-played-dumb-football-vs-dolphins/

[Captain Lemming]

I've got some questions that I want to pose to you gentleman.

Let me state the rules:

1. No rhetoric. I really want to understand the intricacies of this.
2. No personal attacks; Just good back and forth knowledge sharing of what you know. If you don't know, don't state it!

Here's the questions:

Seriously, ....who hires and fires the assistants on our team? Is it suppose to be the GM? Is it Tomlin..and the GM? How much say so does Rooney have in it? Who's verifying the validity of these hires?

Cause let's face it, the guys who've got in these assistant positions as of late , stink. Exactly how does this process work from what you've heard and what you've been told.

It's irrelevant how this makes someone look good or bad..I just really want to know what is the criteria of hiring these guys?

I assumed it was Tomlin, but I simply don't know.

[Captain Lemming]

It was like that to an extent under Cowher but they definitely brought in outside help too. Erhardt, Sherman, Gilbride, Capers, and Haslett were external guys. Lebeau, Whiz, Mularkey, Lewis and Gailey were internal guys. It’s almost dogmatic now, whereas it seemed like there were at least legit searches during the Cowher era. Haley is the only external guy to get a coordinator job in the Tomlin era.

Also, it was a little different under Cowher since he was employing a lot of future HCs whereas Arians is the only one in the Tomlin era that has even sniffed a HC job.

I suppose Austin and Canada were kind of external hires but they seemed to be anointed when they walked into the building. I don’t remember how many guys they interviewed for the DC job but the OC ‘search’ was a farce.

In my opinion, they’re promoting from within in the name of stability instead of leaning on the stability provided by Tomlin, Rooney, and Colbert (until this year anyway) and hiring the best guys for the other jobs. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

Btw I think Austin was a good hire. He’s the first DC in 30 years who didn’t go to the Capers/Lebeau school of the zone blitz. They’ve needed some fresh thinking on that side of the ball for some time.

I would suggest it is wise to hire from within if a coordinator was stolen to be promoted to be a head coach. His system must have been legit, so you want to keep continuity.

If a coordinator is "fired" you'd think an outsider would be preferable as you are looking for change. We are the second category but yet have hired within to replace firings.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

I've got some questions that I want to pose to you gentleman.

Let me state the rules:

1. No rhetoric. I really want to understand the intricacies of this.
2. No personal attacks; Just good back and forth knowledge sharing of what you know. If you don't know, don't state it!

Here's the questions:

Seriously, ....who hires and fires the assistants on our team? Is it suppose to be the GM? Is it Tomlin..and the GM? How much say so does Rooney have in it? Who's verifying the validity of these hires?

Cause let's face it, the guys who've got in these assistant positions as of late , stink. Exactly how does this process work from what you've heard and what you've been told.

It's irrelevant how this makes someone look good or bad..I just really want to know what is the criteria of hiring these guys?

Tomlin interviews and hires the coaches for the team. They are his hires, the GM handles the contacts. It might be a collaborate effort but the coaching hires at at least 75/25 by Tomlin. Rooney as the owner has veto power but he hardly uses it. All make sure the coaches are a fit and get a thumbs up or down. Ask your self the question do you think so and so will be good hire for the team? If you get thumbs up from the people asked the chances for a hire and offer are excellent. I've been involved in the hire process for a major company before. This is how it works. I'd image the Steelers are not that different.

[NorthCoast]

How can it simply lay at the HC 1st if the ownership is willing to pay an OC X amount of dollars? How much will an experience OC cost for similar results? IDK? How can it be the HCs fault if he hires the Steelers way?

Cowher promoted most of his OCs and DCs from within. Why? Because the real man in charge said to do it this way. Maybe it's a league wide thing with stable HCs?

In Josh Allen's 1st season the Bills were 30th in scoring and 30th in yards offense. The Bills scored 269 points. Allen started 11 games that year. He was also their leading rusher. Allen's next season the Bills moved up to 23 ppg and 24 yrds in offensive ranks. 3rd season Allen exploded.

Daboll was the Bills OC from 2018 to 2021. The Bills promoted their OC from within (Dorsey). Dorsey never had any OC experience before this season. Is it Dorsey or the rise of Allen? Easy answer for me. Dorsey was less qualified than Fitchner. The NFL is about the players. Obviously, Fichner had a good relationship with the team's most important player. That's why he was promoted.

I still don't believe Tomlin is the issue with this team. Especially when considering the defense kept this team in most games.

If anything, the Steelers miscalculated the impact that Trubisky would have on the offense. I believe the Steelers expected more out of Trubisky.

Good example on BUF and Allen Burgh. Gives some optimism that things could change in a hurry.

[NorthCoast]

It seems some fans have selective memories on Cowher and Tomlin offensive coordinators so I'm reposting;

Cowhers OC's
Ron Erhardt After being demoted from OC in NYG added as HC by Cowher Fired after philosophical difference after loss in superbowl fate: retired 1998 Out of House hire

Chan Gailey Hired as Steelers WR Coach in 94 served 2 seasons before being promoted to OC Let go after loss in the afc Championship Fate: Coached a struggling cowboys team before coaching GA Tech before returing as OC for the 10-12 Bills 15-16 Jets and 2020 Dolphins In house promotion

Ray Sherman Hired as QB coach 97 promoted to OC 98 Let go after 98 season (7-9 season) Fate: Bounced around the nfl as a positions coach, returning to coach wr in PGH 2019 In House promotion

Kevin Gilbride Hired as OC in 99 after a serving as OC for JAx AND HC for Chargers among others Fired after 2000 season Fate:Went to NYG as OC and was promoted from within to OC won a superbowl, retired 2014 Out of House Hire

Mike Mularkey Hired as TE coach from Tampa in 97 and was promoted to OC in 2001 left steelers in 2004 Fate:served as several oc and hc around the league until retiring in 2020 IN HOUSE HIRE

Ken Wisenhunt Hired as TE coach in 01 after serving as TE coach for Bal/Cle and ST coach for NYJ won superbowl with steelers 05 Hired by AZ as head coach in 07 after not being hired by Steelers in lieu of Mike Tomlin Fate:Served as a HC or OC until leaving the league to be an analysist for Penn State In house promotion

Out of House Hires: 2
In House Promotions: 4

notable patterns:
Cowher seemed to can coordinators faster after losing seasons or missed success. Erhardt was AHT once they lost a superbowl but served the longest. Sherman was the shortest and was ousted fast upon a losing season. Gilbride had the most illustrious career, serving as OC for the Giants team that beat the Pats. He left PGH after two mediocre seasons. The in house/ out of house split here was dead even. There was a notable increase in the lenght of career following the addition of GM Kevin Colbert to the Staff in 2000.

Tomlin's OC
Bruce Arians Hired as WR coach in 2003 after developping as to OC for cleveland. Promoted to OC Contract Expired in 2012 after pissing off the FO and Fans Fate: where he went on to coach IND AZ and Tampa In house Promotion

Todd Haley Joined the league in 95 as a scout for NYJ before moving up the ranks to serve as thier WR coach bounched around the league before landing KC HC gig were he was fired Joined PGH in 2012 serving the length of his contract until 2017 Fate: worse than death Out of House Hire

Randy Fitchner Hired as replacement WR coach after promoting arians until he replaced Haley as OC Served out his contract in 2020 Fate: IDK he gone

Matt Canada Hired as the replacement QB coach after the Haley/Fitchner swap Promoted to OC Following the ousting of Fitchner Fate: Currently terrrorizing the city of Pittsburgh poisoning our water supply, burning our crops, and delivering a plague unto our houses In house Promotion

Out of House Hires: 1
In House Promotions: 3

Notable Patterns:
Tomlin does hold onto his coordinators longer than Cowher you can't argue that. Granted the perennial success of the team under his tenure did not necessitate the change it seemed that prompted cowher to change his coordinators. I was interested to read up on the neoptism claims that surrounded Haley and his hiring and would be inclined to believe it considering he is by far the outlier in the lenght of his duration. As a rule this regime seems to honor the contractual stay of its coordinators so if history has any say then Canada will be here next year...

[WindyCitySteel]

The Steelers generally don't like to hire from outside the organization or hire people they are not comfortable in working with.

Canada was an outsider that the Steelers knew from his days at Pitt.

This was the Steelers way even when Cowher was HC. It's how the Steelers operate.

That's not true. Cowher brought in Ron Erhardt from the Giants, he wasn't in the Steelers org. Dom Capers came from New Orleans to be his DC. Lebeau was promoted from within from DB coach, but he had a long coaching career in the NFL prior. Haslett came straight from New Orleans. Sherman and Gilbride came from other orgs after long careers in the NFL.

Fitchner and Canada's first NFL jobs came in Pittsburgh. Their best qualifications were that they had worked with Tomlin before or recruited his son at Maryland. Both implemented Tomlin's horizontal, low-risk offense, Sullivan will, too, if promoted. This needs to stop.