Joel, Captain Lemming, North Coast, Northern_Blitz, Oviedo, Whisper

[Steel Maniac]

I've got some questions that I want to pose to you gentleman.

Let me state the rules:

1. No rhetoric. I really want to understand the intricacies of this.
2. No personal attacks; Just good back and forth knowledge sharing of what you know. If you don't know, don't state it!

Here's the questions:

Seriously, ....who hires and fires the assistants on our team? Is it suppose to be the GM? Is it Tomlin..and the GM? How much say so does Rooney have in it? Who's verifying the validity of these hires?

Cause let's face it, the guys who've got in these assistant positions as of late , stink. Exactly how does this process work from what you've heard and what you've been told.

It's irrelevant how this makes someone look good or bad..I just really want to know what is the criteria of hiring these guys?

[Steel Maniac]

Feltdizz, Ernie..I didn't forget you. I just didn't have enough space in the subject of the thread space to include you. No disrespect intended.

[hawaiiansteel]

wtf is this, an exclusive invitation only gentleman's club?

if you haven't noticed this is a Steelers message board where everyone is entitled to participate in every thread.

[BURGH86STEEL]

The Steelers generally don't like to hire from outside the organization or hire people they are not comfortable in working with.

Canada was an outsider that the Steelers knew from his days at Pitt.

This was the Steelers way even when Cowher was HC. It's how the Steelers operate.

[Ernie]

That's a legit question SM.. and honestly I have never really given it much thought.
I'm usually so enthralled by offseason free agency, pre draft stuff that I dont really pay much attention to the hiring process etc.
I guess when you consider "The Steelers way" of doing business... I'm sure everything runs through the Rooneys. The Steelers have a history of promoting from within.. so maybe that's all part of the family mindset that's been around since the beginning..

[Chucktownsteeler]

wtf is this, an exclusive invitation only gentleman's club?

if you haven't noticed this is a Steelers message board where everyone is entitled to participate in every thread.

Gentlemen’s Club?? I’m in.

[Northern_Blitz]

I think we are pretty good at hiring DCs and pretty bad at hiring OCs.

While I think that Rooney has to buy off on things, and that we have a general tendency, the responsibility for the hire lies with the HC first.

And we've been bad at hiring OCs lately.

I think that a big part of that also lies with Ben, who got our last competent OC fired by threatening to retire.

I think that led to Fitchner, who was unqualified IMO.

But I think Tomlin is more responsible for bringing in Canada. Who also seems to suck with an offense that looks pretty JV in it's second full year (really just the Ben/Fitch offense with some motion?).

I think I said earlier today that if we continue to apparently do little to improve the offense, we should seriously consider letting Tomlin go at the end of this contract.

It seems like there hasn't really be much change to the scheme for a while. And it has been reported to be the easiest scheme to prepare for in multiple seasons...and it doesn't seem like much has changed.

I like Tomlin and I think he's a good coach. But I think he needs a good OC. And if he doesn't realize that in the medium term...well it's always up to Rooney what he does about it. But it wouldn't be unreasonable to let him go if we keep doing the same thing and getting the same results for another couple seasons*.

* Note that I mean the process, not the results. If we bring in new people and try new things that don't work, I think that's a sign of trying to get better...which we don't seem to be doing currently.

[NorthCoast]

Weidl as assistant GM was hired away from Philly. And White was pulled from WAS as director of pro scouting. Maybe a turning of the tide in terms of looking outside the org. But it's not like they haven't done it in the past. Colbert was an 'outside hire' when he left the Lions for the Steelers.

Florio said the other day that he believes Canada was a Rooney hire, not a Tomlin hire. If true, would Tomlin publicly fight that decision? And would he have the power to fire him? I think not.

[hawaiiansteel]

Let me state the rules:

No personal attacks

you mean like these?

They’ll be scrubbing Tomlin’s nuts tomorrow talking about some sh1t he did over a decade ago. That’s what Cap lemmings always does.

Then Oviedo will be right there to trim those hairs up!

[BURGH86STEEL]

I think we are pretty good at hiring DCs and pretty bad at hiring OCs.

While I think that Rooney has to buy off on things, and that we have a general tendency, the responsibility for the hire lies with the HC first.

And we've been bad at hiring OCs lately.

I think that a big part of that also lies with Ben, who got our last competent OC fired by threatening to retire.

I think that led to Fitchner, who was unqualified IMO.

But I think Tomlin is more responsible for bringing in Canada. Who also seems to suck with an offense that looks pretty JV in it's second full year (really just the Ben/Fitch offense with some motion?).

I think I said earlier today that if we continue to apparently do little to improve the offense, we should seriously consider letting Tomlin go at the end of this contract.

It seems like there hasn't really be much change to the scheme for a while. And it has been reported to be the easiest scheme to prepare for in multiple seasons...and it doesn't seem like much has changed.

I like Tomlin and I think he's a good coach. But I think he needs a good OC. And if he doesn't realize that in the medium term...well it's always up to Rooney what he does about it. But it wouldn't be unreasonable to let him go if we keep doing the same thing and getting the same results for another couple seasons*.

* Note that I mean the process, not the results. If we bring in new people and try new things that don't work, I think that's a sign of trying to get better...which we don't seem to be doing currently.

How can it simply lay at the HC 1st if the ownership is willing to pay an OC X amount of dollars? How much will an experience OC cost for similar results? IDK? How can it be the HCs fault if he hires the Steelers way?

Cowher promoted most of his OCs and DCs from within. Why? Because the real man in charge said to do it this way. Maybe it's a league wide thing with stable HCs?

In Josh Allen's 1st season the Bills were 30th in scoring and 30th in yards offense. The Bills scored 269 points. Allen started 11 games that year. He was also their leading rusher. Allen's next season the Bills moved up to 23 ppg and 24 yrds in offensive ranks. 3rd season Allen exploded.

Daboll was the Bills OC from 2018 to 2021. The Bills promoted their OC from within (Dorsey). Dorsey never had any OC experience before this season. Is it Dorsey or the rise of Allen? Easy answer for me. Dorsey was less qualified than Fitchner. The NFL is about the players. Obviously, Fichner had a good relationship with the team's most important player. That's why he was promoted.

I still don't believe Tomlin is the issue with this team. Especially when considering the defense kept this team in most games.

If anything, the Steelers miscalculated the impact that Trubisky would have on the offense. I believe the Steelers expected more out of Trubisky.

[hackjam]

The Steelers generally don't like to hire from outside the organization or hire people they are not comfortable in working with.

Canada was an outsider that the Steelers knew from his days at Pitt.

This was the Steelers way even when Cowher was HC. It's how the Steelers operate.

It was like that to an extent under Cowher but they definitely brought in outside help too. Erhardt, Sherman, Gilbride, Capers, and Haslett were external guys. Lebeau, Whiz, Mularkey, Lewis and Gailey were internal guys. It’s almost dogmatic now, whereas it seemed like there were at least legit searches during the Cowher era. Haley is the only external guy to get a coordinator job in the Tomlin era.

Also, it was a little different under Cowher since he was employing a lot of future HCs whereas Arians is the only one in the Tomlin era that has even sniffed a HC job.

I suppose Austin and Canada were kind of external hires but they seemed to be anointed when they walked into the building. I don’t remember how many guys they interviewed for the DC job but the OC ‘search’ was a farce.

In my opinion, they’re promoting from within in the name of stability instead of leaning on the stability provided by Tomlin, Rooney, and Colbert (until this year anyway) and hiring the best guys for the other jobs. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

Btw I think Austin was a good hire. He’s the first DC in 30 years who didn’t go to the Capers/Lebeau school of the zone blitz. They’ve needed some fresh thinking on that side of the ball for some time.

[hackjam]

Weidl as assistant GM was hired away from Philly. And White was pulled from WAS as director of pro scouting. Maybe a turning of the tide in terms of looking outside the org. But it's not like they haven't done it in the past. Colbert was an 'outside hire' when he left the Lions for the Steelers.

Florio said the other day that he believes Canada was a Rooney hire, not a Tomlin hire. If true, would Tomlin publicly fight that decision? And would he have the power to fire him? I think not.

If that’s true about Rooney forcing the Canada thing that’s scary. Dan grew up in the football business and built the Steelers into what they became over the past 50 years. He put in the work in scouting and personnel. He drafted guys, hired Noll, etc.

I think that to some extent, Art II is trying to copy the motions without understanding why the motions were there in the first place.

[Buzz]

Feltdizz, Ernie..I didn't forget you. I just didn't have enough space in the subject of the thread space to include you. No disrespect intended.

Well, I wasn't included, so I feel disrespected

[BURGH86STEEL]

It was like that to an extent under Cowher but they definitely brought in outside help too. Erhardt, Sherman, Gilbride, Capers, and Haslett were external guys. Lebeau, Whiz, Mularkey, Lewis and Gailey were internal guys. It’s almost dogmatic now, whereas it seemed like there were at least legit searches during the Cowher era. Haley is the only external guy to get a coordinator job in the Tomlin era.

Also, it was a little different under Cowher since he was employing a lot of future HCs whereas Arians is the only one in the Tomlin era that has even sniffed a HC job.

I suppose Austin and Canada were kind of external hires but they seemed to be anointed when they walked into the building. I don’t remember how many guys they interviewed for the DC job but the OC ‘search’ was a farce.

In my opinion, they’re promoting from within in the name of stability instead of leaning on the stability provided by Tomlin, Rooney, and Colbert (until this year anyway) and hiring the best guys for the other jobs. Especially on the offensive side of the ball.

I wish I knew the inner workings of the Steelers process to shed more light on the situation. To simply blame Tomlin for all of it isn't logical.

I know that Tomlin wants the offense to score more points. Tomlin has to consider the youth on offense. Tomlin's job is to put this team in a position to win games. Outside of one game he gave this team an opportunity to win. He can only attempt to correct mistakes. He can't go out there and execute for the players. He can't make the throws. He can't catch the INTs. He can't make the tackles. Ect.

[BURGH86STEEL]

If that’s true about Rooney forcing the Canada thing that’s scary. Dan grew up in the football business and built the Steelers into what they became over the past 50 years. He put in the work in scouting and personnel. He drafted guys, hired Noll, etc.

I think that to some extent, Art II is trying to copy the motions without understanding why the motions were there in the first place.

Why is it scary? Cowher was forced to draft Ben. The owner gets what he wants. So YOU are making this determination on one down season with a rookie QB starting. Brilliant!!!