Enough with the ‘no talent’ excuse.

[whatever]

Can you actually name anyone who has said every pick was great and gave A’s and B’s for every draft?

For years you have made this accusation without ever providing actual evidence. All you have to do is link to draft threads to show where everyone was on board with every pick.

Literally more than half the board weren’t fans of Muth and Najee in the first 2 rounds. People who love the draft spends hours debating over picks or who they would’ve picked instead of who the FO selected.

Its weird how you want to blame fans for the picks the Steeler make like this board has to power to overturn the FO’s decisions.

What people have to realize is last years draft wasn’t made specifically for THIS year with a 40 year old QB. These are the foundation for the youth movement. Now we need to get younger and better on the OL and DL and find a legit #1 WR.

Yes I can.
Why don’t you prove me wrong and provide me with all the C, D and occasional E draft grades that would support your ‘no talent’ excuse?
Of course certain posters wanted other players drafted. I just remember any of them saying the player we actually selected was a terrible, no talent pick.
The only thing I’m blaming the fans for is being hypocritical.
Praise our picks, predict 11 or 12 wins and then turn around and say we have no talent. Especially when we lose to a terrible team and then hear ‘every team in the nfl is talented. All teams have great players. Wins/Loses usually come fine to turnovers. Parody paroday parody.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Yea, basically.
See , you can’t make posts after each draft pick saying what a great pick it was or you can’t grade our draft an A or B every year and then when the team underachieves use the excuse that their is no talent.
That’s why I’m not getting anyone to reply. They would have to admit they were wrong about the ‘no talent’ claims or admit they know nothing about the players when they were drafted.

Here's the thing about posters or analysts who grade a draft. For most it is people who don't know what they're talking about and are either being blindly optimistic or blindly pessimistic. Essentially, many are grading based on whether or not their pre-draft guess was right. Do you think that anyone here was able to compare the relative merits of switching Kendrick Green to center vs. instead drafting Quinn Meinerz out of Wisconsin-Whitewater? But if after watching videos of Meinerz training at a lumberjack camp in Canada the nobody had heard of becomes the favorite of the week, someone might consider that pick the wrong one. Now, whether or not the pick works out, the professional talent evaluators made the pick with a lot more information than the guy at home. The fact that one side is right and the other is wrong has nothing to do with how the fanbase viewed the pick on draft day.

My go to story for guys who grade the draft in recent years has been Mike Mayock, who was considered the top draft guru, took Clelin Ferrell (IIRC) fourth overall his first draft when nobody else had him in the top 15. However, had Mayock still been working at NFLN, he would have had him as a top 5 pick and all other talking heads would have followed his lead. Had he dropped outside of the top 10, everyone would have been baffled at how this top 5 talent dropped. And now Mayock has been fired - mostly because he couldn't draft talent.

Bottom line.....those who grade a draft after it happens have zero idea what they are talking about.

[Northern_Blitz]

Thanks for sorta admitting you were wrong.
Kc has a better oline and a much better qb.

I think I'm not bad at admitting when I'm wrong on here. Even made posts "shamelessly admitting my wrong predictions".

How about you? How many times have you said you were wrong on this site?

I'm still waiting for your answers to my questions too.

But I feel like you won't do me the courtesy of responding honestly.

[Northern_Blitz]

Here's the thing about posters or analysts who grade a draft. For most it is people who don't know what they're talking about and are either being blindly optimistic or blindly pessimistic. ...

And / or comparing to their own mock draft.
Rubric looks like:
a) Picks that agreed with what I wanted to do are right.
b) Picks that disagreed with what I wanted to do are wrong.

I was in this camp for the 2nd rounder this year. Not that I did a mock...but they did pick a different guy than the one I wanted.

The good news is that I was Pat F looks good and I was wrong about how much a rookie TE would contribute this year.

The bad news is that Humphrey looks like a perennial pro bowler and Green looks like...well not an NFL center.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Here's the thing about posters or analysts who grade a draft. For most it is people who don't know what they're talking about and are either being blindly optimistic or blindly pessimistic. Essentially, many are grading based on whether or not their pre-draft guess was right. Do you think that anyone here was able to compare the relative merits of switching Kendrick Green to center vs. instead drafting Quinn Meinerz out of Wisconsin-Whitewater? But if after watching videos of Meinerz training at a lumberjack camp in Canada the nobody had heard of becomes the favorite of the week, someone might consider that pick the wrong one. Now, whether or not the pick works out, the professional talent evaluators made the pick with a lot more information than the guy at home. The fact that one side is right and the other is wrong has nothing to do with how the fanbase viewed the pick on draft day.

My go to story for guys who grade the draft in recent years has been Mike Mayock, who was considered the top draft guru, took Clelin Ferrell (IIRC) fourth overall his first draft when nobody else had him in the top 15. However, had Mayock still been working at NFLN, he would have had him as a top 5 pick and all other talking heads would have followed his lead. Had he dropped outside of the top 10, everyone would have been baffled at how this top 5 talent dropped. And now Mayock has been fired - mostly because he couldn't draft talent.

Bottom line.....those who grade a draft after it happens have zero idea what they are talking about.

I think most fans would rather be optimistic about players drafted than pessimistic. The reality is that most of the players drafted into the league won't be with a team 4 to 5 years down the road.

It's hard to deal with folks who seem to live in a perpetual state of negativity regarding the Steelers.

[whatever]

Here's the thing about posters or analysts who grade a draft. For most it is people who don't know what they're talking about and are either being blindly optimistic or blindly pessimistic. Essentially, many are grading based on whether or not their pre-draft guess was right. Do you think that anyone here was able to compare the relative merits of switching Kendrick Green to center vs. instead drafting Quinn Meinerz out of Wisconsin-Whitewater? But if after watching videos of Meinerz training at a lumberjack camp in Canada the nobody had heard of becomes the favorite of the week, someone might consider that pick the wrong one. Now, whether or not the pick works out, the professional talent evaluators made the pick with a lot more information than the guy at home. The fact that one side is right and the other is wrong has nothing to do with how the fanbase viewed the pick on draft day.

My go to story for guys who grade the draft in recent years has been Mike Mayock, who was considered the top draft guru, took Clelin Ferrell (IIRC) fourth overall his first draft when nobody else had him in the top 15. However, had Mayock still been working at NFLN, he would have had him as a top 5 pick and all other talking heads would have followed his lead. Had he dropped outside of the top 10, everyone would have been baffled at how this top 5 talent dropped. And now Mayock has been fired - mostly because he couldn't draft talent.

Bottom line.....those who grade a draft after it happens have zero idea what they are talking about.

Great post.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

And / or comparing to their own mock draft.
Rubric looks like:
a) Picks that agreed with what I wanted to do are right.
b) Picks that disagreed with what I wanted to do are wrong.

I was in this camp for the 2nd rounder this year. Not that I did a mock...but they did pick a different guy than the one I wanted.

The good news is that I was Pat F looks good and I was wrong about how much a rookie TE would contribute this year.

The bad news is that Humphrey looks like a perennial pro bowler and Green looks like...well not an NFL center.

Exactly, here's the thing.

First round I wanted Darrisaw. Once he went the pick before, I still wanted a tackle in the first. Now Najee Harris is my favorite running back.

In the second I wanted a tackle or center. Today Fry is my favorite TE.

In the third I again wanted a tackle or center. They took a guard to play center who I'd never heard of because I wasn't really looking a guards. There is no center who I would like to see succeed more than Green.

In the fourth they took a tackle who I had never even looked at because even though I looked at tackles, I didn't look that far down. I'd love nothing more than to see Moore pan out as the LT of the future.

I didn't give the draft a grade because all I had done is watch some highlights of some of the player positions I wanted to see drafted. I'm also not arrogant enough to think that my highlight watching is anywhere close to the amount of time and effort that professionals who scout players for a living, and also meet with the players themselves.

[flippy]

I think most fans would rather be optimistic about players drafted than pessimistic. The reality is that most of the players drafted into the league won't be with a team 4 to 5 years down the road.

It's hard to deal with folks who seem to live in a perpetual state of negativity regarding the Steelers.

I don’t fault anyone for their differing perspectives. I think it’s healthy and I like living in a world where people have unique ideas and thoughts.

What is fascinating is people with different perspectives that are the most diametrically opposed desperately want the same things.

Our points of view are generally shaped in ways outside of our control based on how we learn to cope with life. We’re all just trying to get by in the most enjoyable way we know how. And to each of us, we’re predisposed to think everyone else besides ourselves are irrational.

Sometimes for my own sanity, I take comfort in being the dumbest guy in the room. Smart people have it harder than us dummies because of expectations. It’s pretty easy to get along when everyone realizes your the least threatening and biggest idiot of them all.

Is anyone ever right or wrong about anything? Seems that everyone is trying to create order in life by proving the impossible theorems.

[whatever]

FWIW I'm waiting for your answers to the questions I asked you on pg 1.

What were your expectations (a) before the season and (b) before the playoff game?

And a third one for fun: how many teams that missed the playoffs I. The AFC do you think we're more talented than we were?

Let’s see here. Did you actually answer my question and provide me with posts stating our drafted players have no talent?
Now maybe you weren’t one of the ‘no talent’ excuse guys and that request doesn’t pertain to you. If you did, than can you show me?
As far as your questions.
I believed I predicted around .500 plus a game or 2.
I assumed we would get blown out unless we fluked into another win.
The last one is tough because so many teams had major injuries and got screwed over with Covid protocol.

[Northern_Blitz]

Exactly, here's the thing.

First round I wanted Darrisaw. Once he went the pick before, I still wanted a tackle in the first. Now Najee Harris is my favorite running back.

In the second I wanted a tackle or center. Today Fry is my favorite TE.

In the third I again wanted a tackle or center. They took a guard to play center who I'd never heard of because I wasn't really looking a guards. There is no center who I would like to see succeed more than Green.

In the fourth they took a tackle who I had never even looked at because even though I looked at tackles, I didn't look that far down. I'd love nothing more than to see Moore pan out as the LT of the future.

I didn't give the draft a grade because all I had done is watch some highlights of some of the player positions I wanted to see drafted. I'm also not arrogant enough to think that my highlight watching is anywhere close to the amount of time and effort that professionals who scout players for a living, and also meet with the players themselves.

Yep.

Looks like we did well with our first two picks.

And I'm very happy that PF is turning out better than I thought...and I didn't think he'd be bad. Just that TE was a luxury we couldn't really afford with the OL in shambles (and that was before DD retired).

I also said right from the draft that the pick will always be coupled with how well Green does. Hopefully we see a big jump in Green's performance next year. At C or G.

[Northern_Blitz]

Let’s see here. Did you actually answer my question and provide me with posts stating our drafted players have no talent?
Now maybe you weren’t one of the ‘no talent’ excuse guys and that request doesn’t pertain to you. If you did, than can you show me?
As far as your questions.
I believed I predicted around .500 plus a game or 2.
I assumed we would get blown out unless we fluked into another win.
The last one is tough because so many teams had major injuries and got screwed over with Covid protocol.

Thanks for answering honestly. I appreciate it..

It sounds to me like we kind of met (or even exceeded?) your expectations. And that our sneaking into the playoffs (which I agree was kind of fluky) implies that we got a better result than we'd expect from our talent level this year (I think luck is important...more so in the playoffs where it's win or go home, but in the regular season too).

Re: The other stuff.

I don't watch college football and don't generally comment too much in the draft. I really appreciate the guys that put a ton of time into watching the college players because I don't know much about any of them. So I don't really scout guys good or bad.

This year was a bit of an outlier in that respect for me because I did get more invested in the draft. But more about positional needs than player evaluation.

And most of my posts about the draft are probably about a strong dislike of our 2nd round pick. Not because I didn't like PF, but because I thought that the need at C was much more important and Creed seemed like he would be a good player from everything I'd read.

I was very surprised by the Green pick because I'd never heard of him (like TO said, I was looking at C and T, not G because I was confident in Dotson and DD). My reaction to the Green pick was probably overly negative out of ignorance of the player more than understanding of his strengths / weaknesses. He's turned out to be not good so far. But I'm hoping that an offseason of learning the position will help (because I don't think moving an undersized center to guard will work well).

I generally don't like the idea of a RB in the 1st because I think it's among the easiest position to replace. But I didn't think the pick was unreasonable after the best T's were off the board.

I was encouraged by the hype around Buddy Johnson...which has yet to pan out, but hopefully he turns into something as we have a big need at ILB IMO.

I disliked trading up for Loudermilk, but that looks like a decent pick after a season of play.

I didn't mind drafting a specialist late. That guy probably has a better chance of making the team than most other 7th rounders. I liked the idea of going with the cheaper punter in Harvin because of the cap crunch and how good his good punts were. And I didn't think he'd be less consistent than Berry (oops).

Like many, I also really liked the S. Brown UDFA pickup (which turned out to be completely wrong).

So I think my draft posts this year were mostly negative.

[whatever]

Thanks for answering honestly. I appreciate it..

It sounds to me like we kind of met (or even exceeded?) your expectations. And that our sneaking into the playoffs (which I agree was kind of fluky) implies that we got a better result than we'd expect from our talent level this year (I think luck is important...more so in the playoffs where it's win or go home, but in the regular season too).

Re: The other stuff.

I don't watch college football and don't generally comment too much in the draft. I really appreciate the guys that put a ton of time into watching the college players because I don't know much about any of them. So I don't really scout guys good or bad.

This year was a bit of an outlier in that respect for me because I did get more invested in the draft. But more about positional needs than player evaluation.

And most of my posts about the draft are probably about a strong dislike of our 2nd round pick. Not because I didn't like PF, but because I thought that the need at C was much more important and Creed seemed like he would be a good player from everything I'd read.

I was very surprised by the Green pick because I'd never heard of him (like TO said, I was looking at C and T, not G because I was confident in Dotson and DD). My reaction to the Green pick was probably overly negative out of ignorance of the player more than understanding of his strengths / weaknesses. He's turned out to be not good so far. But I'm hoping that an offseason of learning the position will help (because I don't think moving an undersized center to guard will work well).

I generally don't like the idea of a RB in the 1st because I think it's among the easiest position to replace. But I didn't think the pick was unreasonable after the best T's were off the board.

I was encouraged by the hype around Buddy Johnson...which has yet to pan out, but hopefully he turns into something as we have a big need at ILB IMO.

I disliked trading up for Loudermilk, but that looks like a decent pick after a season of play.

I didn't mind drafting a specialist late. That guy probably has a better chance of making the team than most other 7th rounders. I liked the idea of going with the cheaper punter in Harvin because of the cap crunch and how good his good punts were. And I didn't think he'd be less consistent than Berry (oops).

Like many, I also really liked the S. Brown UDFA pickup (which turned out to be completely wrong).

So I think my draft posts this year were mostly negative.

Great post. I won’t go into addressing every thing you mentioned ( mostly because I don’t have the patience)lol…
I will state that although my prediction on our record was spot on, that wasn’t based solely on our talent. I expect this team to lose a few more than its talent level.

[feltdizz]

Great post. I won’t go into addressing every thing you mentioned ( mostly because I don’t have the patience)lol…
I will state that although my prediction on our record was spot on, that wasn’t based solely on our talent. I expect this team to lose a few more than its talent level.

wait.. so you actually thought we had enough talent to win 10 or 11 games if they played up to their potential?

Interesting

[NorthCoast]

Colbert once said they work with a three year vision when evaluating talent. What no one outside the organization knows is what the Steelers 3 yr vision is for the team (i.e, offensive scheme, skill position emphasis, defensive scheme, etc). If we did know, you would probably view the draft in a whole different light. And maybe picks like Green make more sense.

btw, footballoutsiders publishes annual draft grade analysis. They collect all the media grades and post a GPA for each team. 2021 has not been published yet but PIT's GPA for the 2020 draft was a solid 'C' at 2.66. Interesting side note, there were 13 A+ given out and only five 'F's.

[whatever]

wait.. so you actually thought we had enough talent to win 10 or 11 games if they played up to their potential?

Interesting

Well, sorta. If they were coached up properly.

What’s more interesting is you predicted 12 wins but claimed we had no talent.
You also said they wouldn’t make the playoffs.
Not sure how you thought 12 wins wouldn’t get them in but, whatever.