Deserves its Own Thread: Roethlisberger

["BuzzNuter"]

With as much runs, screens & short passes we throw defenses are all up in the box. We should have an easier time throwing long when we go that route then any other team because teams are playing up. So i disagree with you vehemently. It is Ben. All Ben that we can't connect long.

And i disagree with you that we can't evaluate that WHILE HE IS PLAYING. We do with every other player & position.

Homey, I do like your adverbial passion in your disagreement, but what are your alternatives? Would you replace Ben with Mason? I suspect you are a young guy who has no remembrance of Big Ben being the man in our last two SB runs. Have faith grasshopper, Ben will come through once again.

[feltdizz]

Homey, I do like your adverbial passion in your disagreement, but what are your alternatives? Would you replace Ben with Mason? I suspect you are a young guy who has no remembrance of Big Ben being the man in our last two SB runs. Have faith grasshopper, Ben will come through once again.

I’m not mad at Ben’s game these last few weeks.. mostly because we are winning.

But his deep ball leaves a lot to be desired. There was a time when Ben would go deep and I already had my hands up for a TD because I knew it was on point. It didn’t always happen but it happened a whole lot more than these last few years.

I have faith our offense will be good enough to compete in most games because of the defense we have.. not because of our long ball.

[NorthCoast]

Chase Claypool is the fastest WR. Why he & Ben can't connect I don't know. I think as the season progresses and Ben gets more confident in the OL there will be more deep ball connections.
His arm strength is there. You people have bought into this Ben is done crap. I have never seen such negative reporting on a QB while he is playing. He is the Steelers only option. I say he gets better as the season goes along. With Muth emerging and Najee becoming a Bellcow, the deep ball will open up. People this just gets better. I have faith in Ben. He is a good QB. We will be stacking wins.

You must not have read comments on Favre at the end of his career.
I agree with other posters. Roethlisberger's arm strength is not a problem. But accuracy is another story. But it's not all on him either.
Claypool gets the least amount of separation of any of the Steeler WRs with significant targets. He frequently draws the #1 CB. He has trouble separating against press cover. So jam him at the line, disrupt timing and it's an incomplete pass. And while he leads all Steelers in explosive plays, he's 38th in the NFL in that category. And it's not like they aren't even trying because Roethlisberger is 10th in attempts >20 yds.
So it's not a QB/WR partnership that has developed thus far. It's one of the great team mysteries kinda like how Mayfield can't seem to connect with OBJ.

Draft profile says a lot:

Strengths
Claypool towers over defenders with his 6-foot-4-plus, 238-pound frame. He looks like a tight end but doesn't run like one. He has solid movement, from his get-off to his acceleration and top speed, all of which helps him get in position to jostle for contested catches, which he can win more times than not because of his gigantic size. He will undoubtedly be a matchup problem at the next level. Claypool ran a bunch of different routes and lined up everywhere at Notre Dame but specialized along the outside. Six of his touchdowns in 2019 came on deep throws. He's a good blocker with some highlight-reel pancake blocks on his resume. He also appears to be an athlete of high character, which will buy brownie points with some front offices.

Concerns
You might have been attracted to Claypool's 4.42 speed in the 40-yard dash, but he simply does not play at that speed very often. Additionally, Claypool's footwork in his route running is inconsistent which may not be correctable given his size. There are times where he stops on a dime and turns back toward the ball with the grace of a 5-10 receiver, and there are times where he needs a new set of brakes when decelerating, taking way too many steps to change directions. But perhaps the diciest part of Claypool's game is his hands. Though he's nailed the over-the-shoulder catch and is unafraid to cross the field, there are many moments where it appears Claypool fights the ball before securing it.

So it seems he has things he needed to work on and hopefully this will improve as he gets more experience.

[LPMAN]

Homey, I do like your adverbial passion in your disagreement, but what are your alternatives? Would you replace Ben with Mason? I suspect you are a young guy who has no remembrance of Big Ben being the man in our last two SB runs. Have faith grasshopper, Ben will come through once again.

No don't get me wrong. There is no alternatives. Ben is a hall of fame QB who even with diminishing skills is our best option for the rest of this year.

[Steelerphile]

1 Gentry
2 Watt

Imagine the monster deal for a guy even better than Watt.

I liked Gentry when they drafted him, even though most people didn't. He is a talented receiver. He has good hands and moves athletically with good head and shoulder fakes.
i could see the potential in the college tape.

[hawaiiansteel]

I liked Gentry when they drafted him, even though most people didn't. He is a talented receiver. He has good hands and moves athletically with good head and shoulder fakes.
i could see the potential in the college tape.

what's equally impressive is how Gentry's blocking has developed.

must be Tomlin doing that

[Steelerphile]

Chase Claypool is the fastest WR. Why he & Ben can't connect I don't know. I think as the season progresses and Ben gets more confident in the OL there will be more deep ball connections.
His arm strength is there. You people have bought into this Ben is done crap. I have never seen such negative reporting on a QB while he is playing. He is the Steelers only option. I say he gets better as the season goes along. With Muth emerging and Najee becoming a Bellcow, the deep ball will open up. People this just gets better. I have faith in Ben. He is a good QB. We will be stacking wins.

Ben looked done the first four games. But he turned it around and the last three games has played pretty well; and they won; so, can't complain. The offense still is not putting up a lot of points but he is throwing a lot more effectively. His arm strength does not look worn out,

[feltdizz]

Ben looked done the first four games. But he turned it around and the last three games has played pretty well; and they won; so, can't complain. The offense still is not putting up a lot of points but he is throwing a lot more effectively. His arm strength does not look worn out,

He’a throwing more passes past the marker too. We were extremely conservative out the gate and that could simply be to having a young OL and not trying to do too much too early due to our schedule.

Could also simply be the typical slow starts but since we had a terrible ending to 2020 we over reacted.

[Flasteel]

We're playing bad teams and taking advantage because of our defense. Period.

You're pessimism and abject lack of understanding make me laugh. Out Loud.

[Starlifter]

the three losses for this team were against teams that prior to sunday were all leading the division and 2 of them still are. And as rough as the Steelers have looked at times - other than the cincy loss they were in those games until the end with a chance to win.

They started this season with the #1 ranked toughest schedule. They kicked it off with a revamped O-line starting numerous rookies to go along with the aging QB. Wasn't the narrative that the defense would have to keep them in games for the first half of the season so the offense could get time to gel, come together and hopefully progress? at 4-3 - isn't that how the season has played out so far?

My concerns prior to the season was there were too many 'IF's' that needed to happen for this team to play deep into January. That concern still exists. That being said, here's what I was thinking:

IF the defense plays lights out - it largely has
IF Ben stays healthy - so far so good
IF Najee stays healthy and develops - he has thus far
IF the O-line can overcome initial adversity and form a cohesive unit - jury is still out but trending up

I felt like all of those things needed to happen for the Steelers to succeed - and by and large, they have. The wheels could come off at any time, but while I think Ben has no more upside - everyone else around him does. IF the team keeps trending up with respect to the O-line, run game, defense etc - yeah, I think we could be playing in Jan.

Now if they lose to the Lions in two weeks..........

[feltdizz]

the three losses for this team were against teams that prior to sunday were all leading the division and 2 of them still are. And as rough as the Steelers have looked at times - other than the cincy loss they were in those games until the end with a chance to win.

They started this season with the #1 ranked toughest schedule. They kicked it off with a revamped O-line starting numerous rookies to go along with the aging QB. Wasn't the narrative that the defense would have to keep them in games for the first half of the season so the offense could get time to gel, come together and hopefully progress? at 4-3 - isn't that how the season has played out so far?

My concerns prior to the season was there were too many 'IF's' that needed to happen for this team to play deep into January. That concern still exists. That being said, here's what I was thinking:

IF the defense plays lights out - it largely has
IF Ben stays healthy - so far so good
IF Najee stays healthy and develops - he has thus far
IF the O-line can overcome initial adversity and form a cohesive unit - jury is still out but trending up

I felt like all of those things needed to happen for the Steelers to succeed - and by and large, they have. The wheels could come off at any time, but while I think Ben has no more upside - everyone else around him does. IF the team keeps trending up with respect to the O-line, run game, defense etc - yeah, I think we could be playing in Jan.

Now if they lose to the Lions in two weeks..........

$$$$ post.

We knew it would be a struggle early on but I think winning the first game that everyone thought we would lose raised our expectations.

We also had a ton of injuries after that first game.

What I find interesting is the pessimism when we are 4-3 and I’m sure most people didn’t expect us to be 4-3 after starting 1-3.

Things are trending in the right direction. Hopefully we stay focused and don’t give up a game to the Bears or Lions.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Ben looked done the first four games. But he turned it around and the last three games has played pretty well; and they won; so, can't complain. The offense still is not putting up a lot of points but he is throwing a lot more effectively. His arm strength does not look worn out,

Ben has always been a slow starter. Of course we wish that was not true, but it is what history objectively tells us. I find it funny almost every year when people come out and claim that his play indicates that he is done. The same way that rookies who don't dominate their first game indicates that they are busts. I am always amazed at the overreactions we see every single year when the reasonable response should be more like "well that didn't look good, but we will have to see what happens over the next month or so and hope this begins to improve."

[Northern_Blitz]

Ben has always been a slow starter. Of course we wish that was not true, but it is what history objectively tells us. I find it funny almost every year when people come out and claim that his play indicates that he is done. The same way that rookies who don't dominate their first game indicates that they are busts. I am always amazed at the overreactions we see every single year when the reasonable response should be more like "well that didn't look good, but we will have to see what happens over the next month or so and hope this begins to improve."

I think that it's true that Ben is a slow starter (often across the season and in individual games) and that has caused people to underestimate him at times.

But I just like first four games probably made many think we are worse than we are (probably in that camp myself...except how hyped I was after the Buffalo game), I think the last three have many overestimating how good we are.

We need to figure out a way to score more than 20 points consistently.

I think the current state of the offense puts too much pressure on the D and eventually they'll crack.

Or we'll just play good teams with healthy starting QBs and holding them to 17 or less will be unreasonable.

I guess the good news for us is that KC (who we may end up fighting to a WC berth) has a terrible D, so maybe we'll be able to score when we play them. Hoping the Ingram trade doesn't bite us on that front. But even if it does, I'll try to remember that I didn't expect us to make the playoffs this year.

[flippy]

I think that it's true that Ben is a slow starter (often across the season and in individual games) and that has caused people to underestimate him at times.

But I just like first four games probably made many think we are worse than we are (probably in that camp myself...except how hyped I was after the Buffalo game), I think the last three have many overestimating how good we are.

We need to figure out a way to score more than 20 points consistently.

I think the current state of the offense puts too much pressure on the D and eventually they'll crack.

Or we'll just play good teams with healthy starting QBs and holding them to 17 or less will be unreasonable.

I guess the good news for us is that KC (who we may end up fighting to a WC berth) has a terrible D, so maybe we'll be able to score when we play them. Hoping the Ingram trade doesn't bite us on that front. But even if it does, I'll try to remember that I didn't expect us to make the playoffs this year.

This reminds me of last year when we were 11-0 and riding high. We weren’t that good then and I’m not sure we’re that good again.

I do see some positives in the O around Ben is on the upswing. I really see a new base package emerging with CC, DJ, Pat, Gentry, and Najee at the skill positions. I see the OLine fighting to get better. But I still worry the driver of this offense just doesn’t have what it takes to take full advantage of the skill across the board.

I think we have elite pieces on D with room to grow. I think this D is designed to play with a lead to get the most out of them, but our O doesn’t fully compliment the D because of our QB’s short comings.

I really do hope Ben proves me wrong, but I don’t think he can throw 10+ yards down the field with consistent accuracy. Throw out the deep ball and how accurate is Ben at 10-20 yards? He’s afraid to throw in tight windows. The arm just isn’t there imho.

Look, the guy can still throw a ball further than 99.999% of people on the planet, it he doesn’t have an average arm by NFL QB standards.

I love Ben as much as anyone, but I see how fast he wants to get rid of the ball now and the throws he doesn’t make anymore. He was never long ball accurate. He never won games with his smarts. He is who he is. But he used to be fearless. And that part of his game is long gone. Clearly he doesn’t want to take hits any more, but he also knows the arm he has now.

I hope he proves us wrong and we can work around his limitations. The one hope I do have is Ben might start trusting Pat more to catch anything in his vicinity. Same with Gentry.

And Najee will keep improving along with the OLine and hopefully carry this team.

[crushedspirit]

One can hope the Offense can put these next two matches away early, but this is the NFL, where anything can happen. As for the season up to this, aside from the GB and CIN losses, they've been competitive, so that's a big positive. Their D is carrying the team on their shoulders, but with the upcoming schedule, one can't expect them to keep all the good offenses they'll be facing to under 20 pts each time. At some point, Ben and this O need to step up, or the last 8 games of the season might be troubling to watch.