James Conner

[feltdizz]

I wonder if this is due to poor OL play in general. Like how that's part of the reason Ben throws quickly even when he doesn't necessarily need to.

I’m not understanding how you came to this conclusion based on a post about the OL opening huge holes and RB’s missing them.

[Northern_Blitz]

I’m not understanding how you came to this conclusion based on a post about the OL opening huge holes and RB’s missing them.

I don't know if this is true or not. And I don't have the play in front of me.

But after running behind a terrible line, I could imagine a situation where a RB is kind of just looking for anything that looks like it might become a hole instead of waiting for a good hole or the hole that's supposed to open up. Especially if waiting for the hole that's supposed to be there ends up losing yards a bunch. I think it would be interesting to ask Harris about this after giving him some truth serum.

Just like poor protection could be leaving Ben looking for anyone who can get open quick instead of waiting for the best option.

Again, not sure if it's true. But maybe it could help explain why Conner was making bad decisions like that when running behind our line. But his results this year suggest that he's not making those same mistakes this year.

My guess is also that those poor plays by Conner are also not representative of his season. And that it's probably possible to find most average-ish backs like Conner making similarly bad decisions if look look through enough tape.

I know that you've got a dog in the fight. And no one is saying that Conner was as good as prime-Bell. But he was better than what was left of Bell after we released him. Especially if "better" is results per cap dollar spent.

[pfelix73]

I'm convinced that 90 percent of it is the play formations and scheme. I was just watching some of the Minnesota game and I paused it and re watched certain plays. The OC doesn't do any favors for his OLinemen and TE's by putting them in terrible positions for blocking. That 3rd down run late in the game, the one where Najee ran to the left on a 3rd and 2, only to lose a yard, setting up a 4th down (when they ended up punting on 4th after a delay of game) Anyway, that run the DE saw what was going on right away and Muth tried blocking him. Muth failed because the DE was already past him and on his way to blow up 22 behind the LOS. IF Muth, or dare I say it, Watt was lined up in the FB position, that person would've been able to block the DE with a better angle. Plus the entire left side of the OL went left. There were 7 in the box, and honestly, Ben had 2 open WR's one of each side who, if he audibled out of the play, he had them wide open for a 1 st down.

Now this is just 1 play, and just 1 example, but its not the only example. There are other formations, and plays where the OC needs to rethink what he's doing. Geesh. Canada is and was the problem last year and now this year. We need to start over with someone new from outside the organization on offense. OR just let Ben call the damn game.

[LPMAN]

I'm convinced that 90 percent of it is the play formations and scheme. I was just watching some of the Minnesota game and I paused it and re watched certain plays. The OC doesn't do any favors for his OLinemen and TE's by putting them in terrible positions for blocking. That 3rd down run late in the game, the one where Najee ran to the left on a 3rd and 2, only to lose a yard, setting up a 4th down (when they ended up punting on 4th after a delay of game) Anyway, that run the DE saw what was going on right away and Muth tried blocking him. Muth failed because the DE was already past him and on his way to blow up 22 behind the LOS. IF Muth, or dare I say it, Watt was lined up in the FB position, that person would've been able to block the DE with a better angle. Plus the entire left side of the OL went left. There were 7 in the box, and honestly, Ben had 2 open WR's one of each side who, if he audibled out of the play, he had them wide open for a 1 st down.

Now this is just 1 play, and just 1 example, but its not the only example. There are other formations, and plays where the OC needs to rethink what he's doing. Geesh. Canada is and was the problem last year and now this year. We need to start over with someone new from outside the organization on offense. OR just let Ben call the damn game.

How was Canada the problem last year? This is his first year as our OC last year he was just the QB coach.

[feltdizz]

How was Canada the problem last year? This is his first year as our OC last year he was just the QB coach.

I believe some think Canada had influence over the offense last year.

[NorthCoast]

The one clip where there were two guards pulling in opposite directions and collided with each other in the backfield exactly describes this keystone cops OL this season.

[feltdizz]

I don't know if this is true or not. And I don't have the play in front of me.

But after running behind a terrible line, I could imagine a situation where a RB is kind of just looking for anything that looks like it might become a hole instead of waiting for a good hole or the hole that's supposed to open up. Especially if waiting for the hole that's supposed to be there ends up losing yards a bunch. I think it would be interesting to ask Harris about this after giving him some truth serum.

Just like poor protection could be leaving Ben looking for anyone who can get open quick instead of waiting for the best option.

Again, not sure if it's true. But maybe it could help explain why Conner was making bad decisions like that when running behind our line. But his results this year suggest that he's not making those same mistakes this year.

My guess is also that those poor plays by Conner are also not representative of his season. And that it's probably possible to find most average-ish backs like Conner making similarly bad decisions if look look through enough tape.

I know that you've got a dog in the fight. And no one is saying that Conner was as good as prime-Bell. But he was better than what was left of Bell after we released him. Especially if "better" is results per cap dollar spent.

thanks for the explanation but this has nothing to do with Bell.

Just wanted to know how you came to your conclusion about passing based on what NJ said about the huge holes missed.

[NJ-STEELER]

Every RB misses a big hole at times...don't recall that happening with Conner real often, and i watched most of his games at Pitt too. The one year Conner was completely healthy he was killer. He was getting over 100 yards rushing and over 50 receiving most games.

it was pretty bad. i'll try to find it

i like the guy even going back to pitt, but he's more of a back up then a starter imo

[LPMAN]

it was pretty bad. i'll try to find it

i like the guy even going back to pitt, but he's more of a back up then a starter imo

Well he's going to the pro-bowl this year for the 2nd time in his career.

[WindyCitySteel]

Every RB misses a big hole at times...don't recall that happening with Conner real often, and i watched most of his games at Pitt too. The one year Conner was completely healthy he was killer.He was getting over 100 yards rushing and over 50 receiving most games.

Actually, he only did it four times, and he missed three games.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ConnJa00/gamelog/2018/

[pfelix73]

How was Canada the problem last year? This is his first year as our OC last year he was just the QB coach.

From what I heard in the local press. Canada heavily influenced Fichtner's offense last year. Heavily influenced. He added the jet sweeps, short passing game.

[feltdizz]

Actually, he only did it four times, and he missed three games.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ConnJa00/gamelog/2018/

This is where people start thinking its “hating” when you peel back the onion.

Conner is scoring TD’s and he looks good in the passing game. But this doesn’t mean he is running for a ton of yards.

[Northern_Blitz]

From what I heard in the local press. Canada heavily influenced Fichtner's offense last year. Heavily influenced. He added the jet sweeps, short passing game.

We were doing the short passes are the new runs thing before Canada got here iirc

[Buzz]

We were doing the short passes are the new runs thing before Canada got here iirc

Not to the extent we have the past 2 seasons.

2019 was the year Ben was out with the elbow injury

[Northern_Blitz]

Not to the extent we have the past 2 seasons.

2019 was the year Ben was out with the elbow injury

And I think Ben's completed (and intended?) air yards were among the lowest in the league in 2018. I think that's when the Alex Smith comparisons began, but I could be wrong.

In part because we still had deep ball accuracy issues at the time. Remember the "bad wifi" thing with Ben and AB?

I'm pretty sure we've been throwing short for a while because Ben's deep accuracy hasn't been good.