Tomlin

[hawaiiansteel]

did you enjoy the 4th and 1 decision to punt when the game got a little closer?

no, I didn't.

I'm sure Tomlin had no confidence in the offense to gain a yard, but why would he have any confidence in the defense who couldn't stop anything all day?

that was a terrible decision, sure looked like Tomlin was living in his fears on that call.

[NJ-STEELER]

no, I didn't.

I'm sure Tomlin had no confidence in the offense to gain a yard, but why would he have any confidence in the defense who couldn't stop anything all day?

that was a terrible decision, sure looked like Tomlin was living in his fears on that call.

well thanks for your honesty, even though the questions was to northcoast... but thats fine. i really do want to know if there are people who support the coach at all times. i think its ridiculous to do so.
just as ridiculous it would be to say ben doesn't make mistake.

as the excuses read a few pages ago.... "but every coach makes those mistakes"

hey guess what. every QB in this league makes those mistake too.
the friggin GREATEST OF ALL TIME !!! threw 3 INTs in a road NFCC game this year.
his defense, a group not as heralded as ours, actually came up big and limited the packers when given those opportunities.
3 would have also been the number of INTs he had in KC 2 year prior if Dee ford doesn't have his pinky lined up offsides

and that's what im getting at. for every bad performance some say ben has, i can point out just as many questionable choices tomlin has made. but none of his supporters question why he is coming back while insisting to get rid of ben the last year/2 years/ 5 years.

[BURGH86STEEL]

well thanks for your honesty, even though the questions was to northcoast... but thats fine. i really do want to know if there are people who support the coach at all times. i think its ridiculous to do so.
just as ridiculous it would be to say ben doesn't make mistake.

as the excuses read a few pages ago.... "but every coach makes those mistakes"

hey guess what. every QB in this league makes those mistake too.
the friggin GREATEST OF ALL TIME !!! threw 3 INTs in a road NFCC game this year.
his defense, a group not as heralded as ours, actually came up big and limited the packers when given those opportunities.
3 would have also been the number of INTs he had in KC 2 year prior if Dee ford doesn't have his pinky lined up offsides

and that's what im getting at. for every bad performance some say ben has, i can point out just as many questionable choices tomlin has made. but none of his supporters question why he is coming back while insisting to get rid of ben the last year/2 years/ 5 years.

Bad performances by players are not the same as questionable decisions from a HC.

[NJ-STEELER]

Bad performances by players are not the same as questionable decisions from a HC.

i actually forgive the players more because They are ones the facing the situation live with unpredictable circumstances

coaches are on the sideline viewing the game. almost like a big chess game.
a much easier task.
but they should have each scenario played out a few steps ahead.
I don't think tomlin is very good at that

[hawaiiansteel]

i actually forgive the players more because They are ones the facing the situation live with unpredictable circumstances

coaches are on the sideline viewing the game. almost like a big chess game.
a much easier task

on the flip side, players have much more control over what's happening while coaches don't have that same control once the whistle blows.

[BURGH86STEEL]

i actually forgive the players more because They are ones the facing the situation live with unpredictable circumstances

coaches are on the sideline viewing the game. almost like a big chess game.
a much easier task.
but they should have each scenario played out a few steps ahead.
I don't think tomlin is very good at that

Well I don't know how you forgive the players more when they are the individuals mostly responsible for winning or losing?

Coaches live with more unpredictable circumstances. Coaches don't always know how their players will perform.

Coaches and players watch hours of game film. They study players, team tendencies ect. They do their best to have their players and team prepared.

You know what probably ruins coaches plans the most? Poor execution and mistakes by thier players. I'm not a professional athlete and I know this. Players hear the exact same things from their coaches.

[BURGH86STEEL]

on the flip side, players have much more control over what's happening while coaches don't have that same control once the whistle blows.

Get out your joy stick. Play some madden for complete control.

[NorthCoast]

Well I don't know how you forgive the players more when they are the individuals mostly responsible for winning or losing?

Coaches live with more unpredictable circumstances. Coaches don't always know how their players will perform.

Coaches and players watch hours of game film. They study players, team tendencies ect. They do their best to have their players and team prepared.

You know what probably ruins coaches plans the most? Poor execution and mistakes by thier players. I'm not a professional athlete and I know this. Players hear the exact same things from their coaches.

You hear a common comment from coaches about great players. Their game is consistent. They know exactly what they will get from them every time they step on the field. It's why they are called "great players".

[flippy]

Well I don't know how you forgive the players more when they are the individuals mostly responsible for winning or losing?.

IMHO, just look who gets paid more and that’s who the team decides is most responsible for winning and losing.

ie. Ben is more responsible than Tomlin is more responsible than Vince Williams.

Yet fans are more ready to criticize Vince than the former 2.

Once Ben is gone, there will be more responsibility on Tomlin. And imho, Ben is hamstringing our ability to know what kind of team Tomlin can build.

Even for folks that want to compare Cowher to Tomlin, Cowher was never saddled with so much money going to the QB position which should have always enabled him to build a better roster. Tomlin will likely get that chance to build a team similarly post Ben.

[Mr.wizard]

IMHO, just look who gets paid more and that’s who the team decides is most responsible for winning and losing.

ie. Ben is more responsible than Tomlin is more responsible than Vince Williams.

Yet fans are more ready to criticize Vince than the former 2.

Once Ben is gone, there will be more responsibility on Tomlin. And imho, Ben is hamstringing our ability to know what kind of team Tomlin can build.

Even for folks that want to compare Cowher to Tomlin, Cowher was never saddled with so much money going to the QB position which should have always enabled him to build a better roster. Tomlin will likely get that chance to build a team similarly post Ben.

This is 100% correct, if winning a Superbowl was as simple as just getting a good coach then teams would be throwing big money at coaches and they wouldnt waste time scouting and worrying about the draft so much.

[BURGH86STEEL]

You hear a common comment from coaches about great players. Their game is consistent. They know exactly what they will get from them every time they step on the field. It's why they are called "great players".

I don't disagree. What separates the players at various levels of performance is the consistency in which the great players perform. Even fringe players can have great games, good stretches of play, good seasons ect.

That being said, coaches don't always know what they will get out of any player. You think Tomlin expected Ben to have 4 turnovers vs the Browns? I don't. The complexion of the game could had been different without the turnovers.

[feltdizz]

I think the problem with the player vs coach blame game is this:

Players make mistakes.. we see them and can assign the majority of the blame to them for not winning their matchup, blowing an assignment or turning the ball over.

With coaching its mostly in game adjustments (which players still have to execute) or in game decisions that some feel impact the whole game.

Case in point. Ben throws INT’s. Ben is to blame or you can even blame the OL for failing or the WR’s for not catching the ball or running a bad route. But yet and still.. we watch the players make the mistake and blame whoever we think is responsible.

Kicking it deep vs onside. Of course people will say the other option os correct and would surely work. Yet, we really can’t say it would when the D failed all day.

I remember the GB game where we started doing onside kicks because our D was trash and couldn’t stop Rodgers. We ended up winning on the final play with a Ben pass to Wallace. It was amazing. I’m sure people thought we should’ve continued to kick it deep even tho our D was worthless that day.

If we kicked it deep vs Jax or didn’t punt on 4th and 1 last game.. and STILL lost would Tomlin detractors give him credit for the right call? Hellllll Noooooo

We would just pivot to other plays or decisions as the reason player or coaching failed us.

Still comes doen to winning and we win a lot but we haven’t had success on the playoffs lately. I have said it before and I will say it again and again.

Protect the ball and watch how much easier it is to win a playoff game. Brady throwing 3 INT’s (2 of which where like punts) is much different than 3 INT’s in the first quarter which gives a team a short field.

[BURGH86STEEL]

IMHO, just look who gets paid more and that’s who the team decides is most responsible for winning and losing.

ie. Ben is more responsible than Tomlin is more responsible than Vince Williams.

Yet fans are more ready to criticize Vince than the former 2.

Once Ben is gone, there will be more responsibility on Tomlin. And imho, Ben is hamstringing our ability to know what kind of team Tomlin can build.

Even for folks that want to compare Cowher to Tomlin, Cowher was never saddled with so much money going to the QB position which should have always enabled him to build a better roster. Tomlin will likely get that chance to build a team similarly post Ben.

When it comes to the QB position that's the case. The QB is the one position that can control the game.

There are a host of individuals who are responsible for building the Steelers. I think all the coaches offer input. It was stated that the Steelers select players as an organization(scouts, coaches, GM, owner). The owner and Colbert probably have the final say on players. That could change once Colbert retires. Tomlin will probably gain more power/control.

The league was a different league in the Cowher era. It was "easier" for the Steelers to find hybrid/tweener type of defensive players in later rounds in the Cowher era. They were one of a handful of teams to run a 3-4 defense in the 90's. Now every team is looking for those types of players earlier in the draft.

It will be interesting to see who the Steelers put in Colbert's role once he retires.

[NJ-STEELER]

I don't disagree. What separates the players at various levels of performance is the consistency in which the great players perform. Even fringe players can have great games, good stretches of play, good seasons ect.

That being said, coaches don't always know what they will get out of any player. You think Tomlin expected Ben to have 4 turnovers vs the Browns? I don't. The complexion of the game could had been different without the turnovers.

1 of ben's INTs led to points when the game was 28-7.
a mistake by pouncey led to 7 more points for the browns
as well as johnson letting a ball go right through hands to set up another TD

mistakes by ben and MP (who didn't play the week before) and johnson led to 21 points

there were mistakes by our secondary letting laundry go untouched on a short route he took the distance
how many mistakes did the defense make in letting chubb and hunt run the ball down their throats?
Did you think the team looked prepared?

was it because the coaches thought they would breeze by Cleveland like they did in their 1st match up earlier in the year?
did the players think by sitting some top players the week before they didn't need to take them seriously?

[BURGH86STEEL]

1 of ben's INTs led to points when the game was 28-7.
a mistake by pouncey led to 7 more points for the browns
as well as johnson letting a ball go right through hands to set up another TD

mistakes by ben and MP (who didn't play the week before) and johnson led to 21 points

there were mistakes by our secondary letting laundry go untouched on a short route he took the distance
how many mistakes did the defense make in letting chubb and hunt run the ball down their throats?
Did you think the team looked prepared?

was it because the coaches thought they would breeze by Cleveland like they did in their 1st match up earlier in the year?
did the players think by sitting some top players the week before they didn't need to take them seriously?

A team can be prepared. When they make mistakes in EXECUTION that's on the players. Players get paid to execute.

Regardless of what ever else happened the turn overs decided the outcome of the game. The usually do. The %s don't lie in that regard. It's been proven over and over again. That's why coaches preach taking care of the football is paramount to winning football games.

Look when you coach in the league as long as Tomlin you don't believe you will breeze by anyone. I know this as a fan. I know there are no easy wins in the NFL.

Don't project what you probably thought as an easy win onto Tomlin or the Steelers.

Sitting players is a way of resting banged up players from a long season. Some teams that rested players had success. Some teams that rested players didn't have success or visa versa. There really isn't a wrong or right formula in regard to resting players. It's a matter of opinion. It's a matter of knowing your players and team.

The Chiefs had a bye week and made the Superbowl. The 2017 Pats had a bye week and eventually loss the Superbowl. I am sure I can point to other teams that rested players. I don't know man. Coaches make the best decisions they can. I certainly wouldn't fault a coach for resting veteran players who might need it.

I believe veteran players know they need to take the opposition seriously.