Heart and Steel - book by Bill Cowher

[hawaiiansteel]

This is something I missed originally in the long repetitive discussions on Tomlin / Cowher that haunt our off seasons. But someone (I think Cap Lemming) pointed it out to me. Notice here that when someone is proven to be incorrect about something, they should stop using that narrative / argument.

unfortunately they don't, and that's what is so annoying.

even after being proven to be incorrect, the same false narratives and arguments continue to be repeated over and over and over again.

[Steel Maniac]

Don't be foolish, he did leave on top, or are you judging head coaches on their last year when he had reasons to retire?

Ben did not play well in Cowher's super bowl win. Duh

The team he left consisted of 21 of 22 of the same starters starters also won a super bowl for Tomlin, this time thanks to Ben playing well. And that's a fact. What did Tomlin add again? The rub, which I predict will be in you face from several posters is coming after the Steelers next .500 or losing season. Come up with a good excuse, ok? Until then. I just care about winning in the playoffs. That's been a pretty long time. Five years and counting...

PS: Yeah, just 1 SB in three years. Is that supposed to be bad?

Joel, your wasting your time. They believe what they believe and you , me and some others believe other wise.

You will be having the same discussion over and over again about the same thing.

You had this same conversation at least 6 times and your fairly new still.

Do like I did and just put it in your sig and don’t discuss it anymore.

Time always proves who’s right.

Just put it in your sig and leave it be.

It’s better to just have discussions on team building aspects of the organization. Let time determine the winner.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Joel, your wasting your time. They believe what they believe and you , me and some others believe other wise.

You will be having the same discussion over and over again about the same thing.

You had this same conversation at least 6 times and your fairly new still.

Do like I did and just put it in your sig and don’t discuss it anymore.

Time always proves who’s right.

Just put it in your sig and leave it be.

It’s better to just have discussions on team building aspects of the organization. Let time determine the winner.

The only thing is that time has proven you wrong. That is isn't about being a winner or being right vs wrong. It's simply attempting to apply some logic, reasonable thoughts, and opinions why Tomlin remains the HC. Everything wasn't Tomlin's fault or doing. There were many factors beyond Tomlin's or the organization's control. When weighing all the factors it's easy to understand why Tomlin remains the HC.

Tomlin and the Steelers will eventually part ways at some point. Ummm errr then I guess you will be right after 15+ years of him being a HC?

[hawaiiansteel]

Do like I did and just put it in your sig and don’t discuss it anymore.

Time always proves who’s right.

Just put it in your sig and leave it be.

you mean the Dolphins never winning anything after Don Shula left?

sure proves your point about getting rid of Tomlin

[Joel Buchsbaum]

Going 1 - 1 in SB appearances in 15 years is a pretty high bar for coaches.

Whether they were at the helm of a team before or after 2007.

<begin sarcasm>

What?!!!

You mean the two coaches I said were basically the same have the same number of championships and SB appearances in almost the same amount of time!

It can't be! One of those coaches is amazing and the other doesn't even deserve to be a position coach!

<end sarcasm>

They are the same coach. They just have slightly different strengths / weaknesses (although I think they have the same core strength of motivating players).

It's intellectually dishonest to claim that one is / was excellent when the other is / was trash.

I think there are a couple posters that think both were bad, which I would say is at least logically consistent. But with expectations that are so high there there would only be a hand full of good coaches in the history of the league. And really only one when you consider that the salary cap made consistent success with QBs that weren't on cheap rookie deals* much, much harder to attain.

* We have to remember that Cowher didn't have the advantage that McV or Carroll had with cheap good (or at least good-ish) QBs. The inefficiency was created after Ben's rookie deal. This is something I missed originally in the long repetitive discussions on Tomlin / Cowher that haunt our off seasons. But someone (I think Cap Lemming) pointed it out to me. Notice here that when someone is proven to be incorrect about something, they should stop using that narrative / argument.

Maybe you can help me? What are Tomlin's strengths as a coach? All ears on this question, and his biggest fans can reply if they wish, just be ready for it.

Cowher is 5-1 with Ben in the playoffs and he didn't Ben even play that well for him as he was so young, Tomlin's record is hat with Ben? See a big difference? Cowher did not win a super bowl because of Ben. His team did. Tomlin won his SB with am amazing comeback comeback by Ben and miracle throw and catch ( With Cowher's players, 21 of 22 starters ) to win his super bowl.

Cowher is 12-9 in th playoffs, playing with some average QB's, and I'm being kind. What's Tomlin overall playoff record, and GASP, it could be a losing one this season if we make at the playoffs.

Did Cowher always have new stadium money or did Rooney blow losing perhaps our best franchise player in history failing to re-sign him and giving up our AFC championship QB entering his prime? Just a few questions.

I never said one was excellent the other trash. One was excellent, the other over rated. Expectations given the talent we had was high. We under achieved under one each.

[Steel Maniac]

The only thing is that time has proven you wrong. That is isn't about being a winner or being right vs wrong. It's simply attempting to apply some logic, reasonable thoughts, and opinions why Tomlin remains the HC. Everything wasn't Tomlin's fault or doing. There were many factors beyond Tomlin's or the organization's control. When weighing all the factors it's easy to understand why Tomlin remains the HC.

Tomlin and the Steelers will eventually part ways at some point. Ummm errr then I guess you will be right after 15+ years of him being a HC?

Burgh86, your late to the party. We’ve already had endless discussions . Don’t need to prove anything to you. My points have been heard and made. Have a great day.

[hawaiiansteel]

We’ve already had endless discussions . Don’t need to prove anything to you. My points have been heard and made.

your false narratives and arguments have been disproven on many occasions.

yet you continue to repeat them over and over and over and over again anyway.

[Mr.wizard]

Tomlins strengths:
Leadership
Culture
Adaptability
Preperation

[BURGH86STEEL]

Tomlins strengths:
Leadership
Culture
Adaptability
Preperation

Confidence
Winning
Passion

[flippy]

Maybe you can help me? What are Tomlin's strengths as a coach? All ears on this question, and his biggest fans can reply if they wish, just be ready for it.

Cowher is 5-1 with Ben in the playoffs and he didn't Ben even play that well for him as he was so young, Tomlin's record is hat with Ben? See a big difference? Cowher did not win a super bowl because of Ben. His team did. Tomlin won his SB with am amazing comeback comeback by Ben and miracle throw and catch ( With Cowher's players, 21 of 22 starters ) to win his super bowl.

Cowher is 12-9 in th playoffs, playing with some average QB's, and I'm being kind. What's Tomlin overall playoff record, and GASP, it could be a losing one this season if we make at the playoffs.

Did Cowher always have new stadium money or did Rooney blow losing perhaps our best franchise player in history failing to re-sign him and giving up our AFC championship QB entering his prime? Just a few questions.

I never said one was excellent the other trash. One was excellent, the other over rated. Expectations given the talent we had was high. We under achieved under one each.

Maybe Tomlin would have gotten more out of Kordell and NOD???

Does Cowher get some blame for losing AFCC home games?

Maybe neither coach would have won without Lebeau.

I like Tomlin and Cowher. I think they’re pretty comparable. Both have been frustrating in their time. And we’ll all look back and overrate them both equally in time.

Id argue both should have brought home another Lombardi at a minimum and they didn’t. But that’s ok. It’s generally been a fun ride, they’ve put us in a good position to compete. And there’s a lot of luck at play in the NFL.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

Joel, your wasting your time. They believe what they believe and you , me and some others believe other wise.

You will be having the same discussion over and over again about the same thing.

You had this same conversation at least 6 times and your fairly new still.

Do like I did and just put it in your sig and don’t discuss it anymore.

Time always proves who’s right.

Just put it in your sig and leave it be.

It’s better to just have discussions on team building aspects of the organization. Let time determine the winner.

I don't think so, I'm asking and people usually don't retort to my questions, at least with anything provable. I'm fine with any poster as long as they don't take a shot at me of mis quote me to make their point.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

Tomlins strengths:
Leadership
Culture
Adaptability
Preperation

Leadership. X Steelers rip him and rightly so.

Culture? Culture of what? Losing in the playoffs?

Adaptability? Please define? I've seen too many losses to inferior team, the inability to play well on the west coast, and late or no changes in the game plan when we need one. Were we adaptable last year with all these short passes?

Preparation? We don't look like a prepared team often enough.

Just because your typing in words that you can't define doesn't make them true.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

Maybe Tomlin would have gotten more out of Kordell and NOD???

Does Cowher get some blame for losing AFCC home games?

Maybe neither coach would have won without Lebeau.

I like Tomlin and Cowher. I think they’re pretty comparable. Both have been frustrating in their time. And we’ll all look back and overrate them both equally in time.

Id argue both should have brought home another Lombardi at a minimum and they didn’t. But that’s ok. It’s generally been a fun ride, they’ve put us in a good position to compete. And there’s a lot of luck at play in the NFL.

Lol

What would Tomlin have done differently with Kordell? Please define. Watch this space, your unable to.

No--Kordell's 4 turnovers sunk the Steelers. The Kordrell experiment was Rooney's was too cheap too cheap to even come close to the matching the Jets offer, silly man, letting Rood Woodson, Kevin Greene, and Neil' O'Donnell go. Cowher had to coach around this and Play Kordell at QB? No easy task.

[feltdizz]

Joel, your wasting your time. They believe what they believe and you , me and some others believe other wise.

You will be having the same discussion over and over again about the same thing.

You had this same conversation at least 6 times and your fairly new still.

Do like I did and just put it in your sig and don’t discuss it anymore.

Time always proves who’s right.

Just put it in your sig and leave it be.

It’s better to just have discussions on team building aspects of the organization. Let time determine the winner.

lmao at “just put it in a sig”

[Northern_Blitz]

Maybe Tomlin would have gotten more out of Kordell and NOD???

Does Cowher get some blame for losing AFCC home games?

Maybe neither coach would have won without Lebeau.

I like Tomlin and Cowher. I think they’re pretty comparable. Both have been frustrating in their time. And we’ll all look back and overrate them both equally in time.

Id argue both should have brought home another Lombardi at a minimum and they didn’t. But that’s ok. It’s generally been a fun ride, they’ve put us in a good position to compete. And there’s a lot of luck at play in the NFL.

I think this is an interesting point.

BC and MT are both good motivators / big picture guys as HCs. But not really elite Xs and Os guys.

I think they both need good coordinators to be successful. And they both had enough control of their ego to work with good coordinators and put good teams on the field.

My guess is that's a somewhat rare thing in elite professions like NFL coaching.