Colbert's Draft Report Card Last 4 Yrs

[Mr.wizard]

you nailed it, definitely two heartbreaking losses.

Without those two fumbles we had a chance to win another Superbowl and at least play in another Superbowl.

[Northern_Blitz]

North_Blitz, in your recollection, did we have any soul crushing playoff losses under Tomlin?

Yes.

They are basically the same coach.

That is my point. As stated in the post you quoted.

Winning single elimination tournaments is hard. Especially when you have lots of turnovers.

[Northern_Blitz]

it was ben's fault for 1 turnover in the game that led to 7 points when the browns were winning 28-7.

21 more points by cleveland in a little over a quarter. that looks like the team wasn't ready to play.
who does the blame go to there?

So you don't blame Ben for the picks, but you blame Tomlin for everything?

Because the always in the probowl center and the hof QB who have both played for more than a decade weren't prepared? Is it ever the players fault?

This is what I was referring to as the "Tomlin didn't sprinkle enough pixie dust on them" argument.

Yes the D sucked too. But how demoralized do you think they were?

They should have rose to the challenge better than they did. That would have made the game closer.

But after the worst offensive quarter in the history of the playoffs, the game was over anyway.

And Ben has sucked in playoff games when not down by multiple scores for a while. I don't think he can succeed against good defenses that play tight coverage anymore.

Do you think he has a good second half if the game is closer and the Browns are playing tighter?
Remember he thew another pick when we had a chance to get within 8 with a TD and 2 point conversion.

Like the Jags game, we were brutal on O whenever it was within 2 scores.

I hope I'm wrong and he pulls a P Manning this year, but I don't think Ben has it anymore.

[Captain Lemming]

Yup, and some of the losses were soul crushing, especially Chargers in '95. I also remember what he could do with scraps at QB, and how he molded a defense that was feared. I also remember how competitive the games were come playoff time even in a loss, unlike now. That Charger game came down to a 4th down play at their 3 yard line. The next season they would have won the SB against an all-star studded team that would go on to send 6 players to the HOF, if not for O'Donnell throwing the game away. Kordell tosses 3 in a 3 point tight game against Broncos in '98. In '02 Kordell throws 2 picks in the last 3 minutes and cost them the Pats game by 7. In '03 they lose in OT to Titans with Maddox LOL. This current group has been embarrassed the last 3 playoff games since 2016, unless you want to count a TD with 4 seconds left to make the score prettier against the Jags. Cowher's teams would not look this bad in stringing losses together come playoff time.

How come when NOD or Kordell turns the ball over its the QB, but when Ben does it...coaches fault?

I don't care if Ben is a HOF QB because of his history. Bad QB play is bad QB play regardless the name on the jersey and he was no better than NOD or Kordell at protecting the ball against the Browns.

[crushedspirit]

How come when NOD or Kordell turns the ball over its the QB, but when Ben does it...coaches fault?

I don't care if Ben is a HOF QB because of his history. Bad QB play is bad QB play regardless the name on the jersey and he was no better than NOD or Kordell at protecting the ball against the Browns.

Ben deserves much criticism over the least debacle against Cleveland, but people are stretching it if he's their scapegoat against the Jags and NE. Where was the defense in these 3 straight embarrassments? Not even 1 turnover created, and they bent over in each game, for Brady, Fournette, and the entire Cleveland offense. Team has been uncompetitive in playoff games on 3 straight tries, something you would never see with the previous regime. Even with the scrap heap QBs Cowher had, those playoff losses listed were all within reach, because the team would compete to the bitter end. I don't see that with this group, and that's my main concern.

[feltdizz]

How come when NOD or Kordell turns the ball over its the QB, but when Ben does it...coaches fault?

I don't care if Ben is a HOF QB because of his history. Bad QB play is bad QB play regardless the name on the jersey and he was no better than NOD or Kordell at protecting the ball against the Browns.

just depends on which coach you like.

We know the answer to this question.. lol

[Northern_Blitz]

Ben deserves much criticism over the least debacle against Cleveland, but people are stretching it if he's their scapegoat against the Jags and NE. Where was the defense in these 3 straight embarrassments? Not even 1 turnover created, and they bent over in each game, for Brady, Fournette, and the entire Cleveland offense. Team has been uncompetitive in playoff games on 3 straight tries, something you would never see with the previous regime. Even with the scrap heap QBs Cowher had, those playoff losses listed were all within reach, because the team would compete to the bitter end. I don't see that with this group, and that's my main concern.

The defense was built around Shazier against the Jags.

That was a game against a team with a one dimensional offense.

The game plan is, don't turn the ball over, try to score early, make them abandon the run.

Early turnovers put us in the hole against what might be the best D of the decade.

And while out 50-less D looked OK against the passing D of the Pats, we couldn't stop the run.

Ben was a huge part of loss with early turnovers.

Again, he played well once we were down by more than 2 scores and the D was less aggressive.

Again, once it got close at the end we couldn't do anything.

Tomlin made a pretty big mistake playing Spence so much over Fort IMO.

I wonder what would have happened if Shazier didn't get hurt, or if he got hurt before the trade deadline.

[NorthCoast]

So you don't blame Ben for the picks, but you blame Tomlin for everything?

Because the always in the probowl center and the hof QB who have both played for more than a decade weren't prepared? Is it ever the players fault?

This is what I was referring to as the "Tomlin didn't sprinkle enough pixie dust on them" argument.

Yes the D sucked too. But how demoralized do you think they were?

They should have rose to the challenge better than they did. That would have made the game closer.

But after the worst offensive quarter in the history of the playoffs, the game was over anyway.

And Ben has sucked in playoff games when not down by multiple scores for a while. I don't think he can succeed against good defenses that play tight coverage anymore.

Do you think he has a good second half if the game is closer and the Browns are playing tighter?
Remember he thew another pick when we had a chance to get within 8 with a TD and 2 point conversion.

Like the Jags game, we were brutal on O whenever it was within 2 scores.

I hope I'm wrong and he pulls a P Manning this year, but I don't think Ben has it anymore.

The debate on Tomlin/Cowher seems to come down to 'if Cowher had a franchise QB he would have won more SBs. Or if Roethlisberger would have been his QB, the Steelers would have won more SBs.'

So I did some homework with some effort. How many post season games has Roethlisberger played like a franchise QB? I tried to keep this simple with a few stats that might shed some light.

	QB Rating	Comp%	TDs/gm	INTs/gm
Post-season avg	86.4	63.0	1.5	1.3
Wins	87.1	61.1	1.2	1.2
Losses	84.8	64.2	2.1	1.8

I know there is some danger of distorted numbers due to the game circumstances, like the high avg TDs/gm in losses. But there a few things stick out behind the numbers.

WINS:

• In 8 out of 13 wins, Roethlisberger's QB rating was above his post-season average. You could argue the defense helped in the other 5 wins (didn't study the details).
• In 9 out of 13 wins, INTs were below his post-season avg.

LOSSES:

• In 7 out of 9 losses his QB rating was below his post season average (the JAX and DEN losses were the exception. He played well and I think a good argument could be made for both games is the failure of the defense).

So how does he compare to a few other franchise QBs in the post season with similar # appearances?

Roethlisberger is 13-9; Brees is 9-9 ; Rivers 5-7; Rodgers 12-9

	QB Rating	Comp%	TDs/gm	INTs/gm
Roethlisberger post season avg	86.4	63.0	1.5	1.3
Brees	97.1	66.7	2.1	0.8
Rivers	85.3	59.4	1.3	0.8
Rodgers	100.5	64.6	2.1	0.6

[feltdizz]

Ben deserves much criticism over the least debacle against Cleveland, but people are stretching it if he's their scapegoat against the Jags and NE. Where was the defense in these 3 straight embarrassments? Not even 1 turnover created, and they bent over in each game, for Brady, Fournette, and the entire Cleveland offense. Team has been uncompetitive in playoff games on 3 straight tries, something you would never see with the previous regime. Even with the scrap heap QBs Cowher had, those playoff losses listed were all within reach, because the team would compete to the bitter end. I don't see that with this group, and that's my main concern.

wait.. in the Jags game Golden blocked a punt bit the offense ran 4 plays and turned the ball over on downs.

The issue with the Jags game was anytime the game got tight our offense didn’t convert.

A turnover or 2 would’ve been nice but we all knew our offense was the strength of that team. While they didn’t produce turnovers they actually had a strong 3rd quarter but our offense sputtered every time they got a stop.

[crushedspirit]

The defense was built around Shazier against the Jags.

That was a game against a team with a one dimensional offense.

The game plan is, don't turn the ball over, try to score early, make them abandon the run.

Early turnovers put us in the hole against what might be the best D of the decade.

And while out 50-less D looked OK against the passing D of the Pats, we couldn't stop the run.

Ben was a huge part of loss with early turnovers.

Again, he played well once we were down by more than 2 scores and the D was less aggressive.

Again, once it got close at the end we couldn't do anything.

Tomlin made a pretty big mistake playing Spence so much over Fort IMO.

I wonder what would have happened if Shazier didn't get hurt, or if he got hurt before the trade deadline.

Brady sat in the pocket for an eternity on his way to carving up the Steeler D like it was non-existent, 32-42-383-3-0. No run game was required. Ben didn't turn the ball over until the 4th Q, when the game was 9-33. The D gave up two long drives in the first quarter to set the tone. When Ben drove them down for a score to start the second quarter, their D responded with allowing another long drive for a score. That was a total beat down, and the D was garbage from start to finish. Anyone blaming Ben for that loss is not being reasonable.

In the Jags loss, the D sets the tone by allowing a score on the opening drive. Ben throws a pick on a great play by Jack, and instead of the D stepping up, they allow Fournette to score on the very next play from 18 yards out. Next drive, Ben brings them down to the 22, and our great Bell, and the oline, can't even get convert a 3rd and 2, or a 4th and 1. Jags take over, and drive 80 yards for another score. On the fumble before the half, Villanueva was beaten soundly. Ben held it for a tad too long, but it was still under 4 seconds from snap to sack, and nobody was open on long developing pass routes. He wasn't great at all in the first half, but the D once again bent over far too easily.

Browns loss Ben was just plain bad, and the D bent over yet again. In all these losses the D has been hot garbage, and the team non-competitive as a group. It's a repeating theme that needs attention, and it has to start from the top on down. Finding Ben as the sole scapegoat is just lazy thinking IMHO. It's easier to blame one for some people, than to say there's a deeper problem that requires a more complex thought process to rectify.

[Northern_Blitz]

The debate on Tomlin/Cowher seems to come down to 'if Cowher had a franchise QB he would have won more SBs. Or if Roethlisberger would have been his QB, the Steelers would have won more SBs.'

So I did some homework with some effort. How many post season games has Roethlisberger played like a franchise QB? I tried to keep this simple with a few stats that might shed some light.

	QB Rating	Comp%	TDs/gm	INTs/gm
Post-season avg	86.4	63.0	1.5	1.3
Wins	87.1	61.1	1.2	1.2
Losses	84.8	64.2	2.1	1.8

I know there is some danger of distorted numbers due to the game circumstances, like the high avg TDs/gm in losses. But there a few things stick out behind the numbers.

WINS:

• In 8 out of 13 wins, Roethlisberger's QB rating was above his post-season average. You could argue the defense helped in the other 5 wins (didn't study the details).
• In 9 out of 13 wins, INTs were below his post-season avg.

LOSSES:

• In 7 out of 9 losses his QB rating was below his post season average (the JAX and DEN losses were the exception. He played well and I think a good argument could be made for both games is the failure of the defense).

So how does he compare to a few other franchise QBs in the post season with similar # appearances?

Roethlisberger is 13-9; Brees is 9-9 ; Rivers 5-7; Rodgers 12-9

	QB Rating	Comp%	TDs/gm	INTs/gm
Roethlisberger post season avg	86.4	63.0	1.5	1.3
Brees	97.1	66.7	2.1	0.8
Rivers	85.3	59.4	1.3	0.8
Rodgers	100.5	64.6	2.1	0.6

I look at this and see: it's hard to win games against good teams when you turn the ball over. Twice is probably too many against a playoff team (although maybe the D saves you be getting some back).

If I might editorialize a bit, I'd add that it's hard for Bad Ben not to come out for at least a half in a 4 game single elimination tournament. Especially now with the "passes are the new runs" offense. And those bad halves ended the games against the Jags and the Browns.

[Northern_Blitz]

Brady sat in the pocket for an eternity on his way to carving up the Steeler D like it was non-existent, 32-42-383-3-0. No run game was required. Ben didn't turn the ball over until the 4th Q, when the game was 9-33. The D gave up two long drives in the first quarter to set the tone. When Ben drove them down for a score to start the second quarter, their D responded with allowing another long drive for a score. That was a total beat down, and the D was garbage from start to finish. Anyone blaming Ben for that loss is not being reasonable.

In the Jags loss, the D sets the tone by allowing a score on the opening drive. Ben throws a pick on a great play by Jack, and instead of the D stepping up, they allow Fournette to score on the very next play from 18 yards out. Next drive, Ben brings them down to the 22, and our great Bell, and the oline, can't even get convert a 3rd and 2, or a 4th and 1. Jags take over, and drive 80 yards for another score. On the fumble before the half, Villanueva was beaten soundly. Ben held it for a tad too long, but it was still under 4 seconds from snap to sack, and nobody was open on long developing pass routes. He wasn't great at all in the first half, but the D once again bent over far too easily.

Browns loss Ben was just plain bad, and the D bent over yet again. In all these losses the D has been hot garbage, and the team non-competitive as a group. It's a repeating theme that needs attention, and it has to start from the top on down. Finding Ben as the sole scapegoat is just lazy thinking IMHO. It's easier to blame one for some people, than to say there's a deeper problem that requires a more complex thought process to rectify.

I don't think the Pats game was on Ben. The Pats were just the better team and we were decimated by injuries IIRC.

Your description of the game against the Jags includes 3 turnovers in the drives you outlined. The offense was bad against a very good defense. I guess it's good that Ben played better than he did in the regular season game? Fans underestimated how good the Jags were. Which I think is crazy after they owned us in the regular season game. Too many were in the "oh, Ben just has the odd horrible game every year. It's us not them. Not a big deal." camp. That defense was special. And we needed to get a lead and not turn the ball over early. The O (where we spent so much cap room that year) needed to carry the D (after losing it's only real play maker). And they failed.

Let me give you some super deep football analysis about the Browns game. It's almost impossible to win a game when you're -5 in the turnover ratio. I know that it's a ground breaking idea. So when your QB has 4 interceptions, it's his fault you lost. That's the reason he gets paid the big bucks. Because he's the person most responsible for success and failure on the team. And you team will lose when / if he ****s the bed.

[feltdizz]

Brady sat in the pocket for an eternity on his way to carving up the Steeler D like it was non-existent, 32-42-383-3-0. No run game was required. Ben didn't turn the ball over until the 4th Q, when the game was 9-33. The D gave up two long drives in the first quarter to set the tone. When Ben drove them down for a score to start the second quarter, their D responded with allowing another long drive for a score. That was a total beat down, and the D was garbage from start to finish. Anyone blaming Ben for that loss is not being reasonable.

In the Jags loss, the D sets the tone by allowing a score on the opening drive. Ben throws a pick on a great play by Jack, and instead of the D stepping up, they allow Fournette to score on the very next play from 18 yards out. Next drive, Ben brings them down to the 22, and our great Bell, and the oline, can't even get convert a 3rd and 2, or a 4th and 1. Jags take over, and drive 80 yards for another score. On the fumble before the half, Villanueva was beaten soundly. Ben held it for a tad too long, but it was still under 4 seconds from snap to sack, and nobody was open on long developing pass routes. He wasn't great at all in the first half, but the D once again bent over far too easily.

Browns loss Ben was just plain bad, and the D bent over yet again. In all these losses the D has been hot garbage, and the team non-competitive as a group. It's a repeating theme that needs attention, and it has to start from the top on down. Finding Ben as the sole scapegoat is just lazy thinking IMHO. It's easier to blame one for some people, than to say there's a deeper problem that requires a more complex thought process to rectify.

I don’t think anyone has Ben as the lone scapegoat.

Ben was great in the Pats loss. No complaints. I was furious at Tomlin and the defensive game plan with that damn cushion. Never blamed Ben at all for that loss.

Jags game Ben gets blame because early turnovers on your side of the field are soul crushing. Would be nice if the D made a stop but most times when a team turns the ball over the D tends to give up a big play early. We all knew the D was a weak spot that year. I think the main issue was fans thought we were much better than a team who beat us earlier in the year at home. We thought it was a fluke win since Ben had like 3 turnovers on 3 plays in the regular season game. It was not. Jags were legit. No one is saying it was all Ben but dammit, franchise QB like Ben can’t turn the ball over early and expect good results by the D. This wasn’t the 2005 defense.

Browns game was just awful Ben. I really don’t have words for why he looked so bad in the first half. We couldn’t even fall on a fumble in the end zone. No juice. Not sure how anyone can defend Ben on that game. He looked like he overslept and didn’t wake up until the game was out of reach. People complain about preparation and game plans but when the offense has that many turnovers the game plan goes out the window. That’s my biggest frustration with the last 2 playoff games. Turnovers forced us to play catch up on the first quarter. I would prefer if we just handed the ball off in the first quarter every play just to keep it close. Wouldn’t it be nice to not pray for an INT when we pass the ball early in the playoffs? Cause right now it feels like once the playoffs start, so do the INT’s.

[Northern_Blitz]

The debate on Tomlin/Cowher seems to come down to 'if Cowher had a franchise QB he would have won more SBs. Or if Roethlisberger would have been his QB, the Steelers would have won more SBs.'

So I did some homework with some effort. How many post season games has Roethlisberger played like a franchise QB? I tried to keep this simple with a few stats that might shed some light.

	QB Rating	Comp%	TDs/gm	INTs/gm
Post-season avg	86.4	63.0	1.5	1.3
Wins	87.1	61.1	1.2	1.2
Losses	84.8	64.2	2.1	1.8

I know there is some danger of distorted numbers due to the game circumstances, like the high avg TDs/gm in losses. But there a few things stick out behind the numbers.

WINS:

• In 8 out of 13 wins, Roethlisberger's QB rating was above his post-season average. You could argue the defense helped in the other 5 wins (didn't study the details).
• In 9 out of 13 wins, INTs were below his post-season avg.

LOSSES:

• In 7 out of 9 losses his QB rating was below his post season average (the JAX and DEN losses were the exception. He played well and I think a good argument could be made for both games is the failure of the defense).

So how does he compare to a few other franchise QBs in the post season with similar # appearances?

Roethlisberger is 13-9; Brees is 9-9 ; Rivers 5-7; Rodgers 12-9

	QB Rating	Comp%	TDs/gm	INTs/gm
Roethlisberger post season avg	86.4	63.0	1.5	1.3
Brees	97.1	66.7	2.1	0.8
Rivers	85.3	59.4	1.3	0.8
Rodgers	100.5	64.6	2.1	0.6

I wonder if the Jags game is above the line in QB Rating because it doesn't count fumbles (IIRC)?

[crushedspirit]

I don't think the Pats game was on Ben. The Pats were just the better team and we were decimated by injuries IIRC.

Your description of the game against the Jags includes 3 turnovers in the drives you outlined. The offense was bad against a very good defense. I guess it's good that Ben played better than he did in the regular season game? Fans underestimated how good the Jags were. Which I think is crazy after they owned us in the regular season game. Too many were in the "oh, Ben just has the odd horrible game every year. It's us not them. Not a big deal." camp. That defense was special. And we needed to get a lead and not turn the ball over early. The O (where we spent so much cap room that year) needed to carry the D (after losing it's only real play maker). And they failed.

Let me give you some super deep football analysis about the Browns game. It's almost impossible to win a game when you're -5 in the turnover ratio. I know that it's a ground breaking idea. So when your QB has 4 interceptions, it's his fault you lost. That's the reason he gets paid the big bucks. Because he's the person most responsible for success and failure on the team. And you team will lose when / if he ****s the bed.

Ben deserves some blame for that Jags loss for sure, and he was just plain bad against the Browns. What bothers me the most is the D bending over twice that season to Fournette. They played the second game, like the first never happened. Shazier played in the first beat down that season, and there was little difference in the playoffs when he wasn't there. The other thing that bothered me in that game was why Haley came out with a passing game plan against the top ranked pass D, that also ranked 21st against the run? It made no sense to me at the time, and again, shows there is a greater problem that goes beyond Ben.

Ben deserves some blame for sure, but so do his teammates on both sides of the ball, and the entire coaching staff. Some here like to keep pointing his way, and that's unreasonable, to me anyways.