Question for those of you who are critical of Tomlin....

[Captain Lemming]

Is it the players or the coach?

The answer is easy.

Look at the SB favorite KC Chiefs. They have an awesome coach.

Say you had to bet your life savings on the Steelers and could snatch any one person from the Chiefs to do it...would it be that coach to replace Tomlin?

Your answer is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of why the Chiefs are SB favorites rather than the Steelers.

[hawaiiansteel]

give me Patrick Mahomes, Andy Reid never won a Super Bowl until he had him as his QB.

[Captain Lemming]

give me Patrick Mahomes, Andy Reid never won a Super Bowl until he had him as his QB.

Would the Chiefs be favorites with broken Ben?

[Chucktownsteeler]

Easy answer: Patrick Mahommes.

[skyhawk]

Would the Chiefs be favorites with broken Ben?

Why, yes they would. Their coaches can actually coach and teach their players to run, block, and run a passing offense with their receivers and backs. Then add in ingenuity, a once in a lifetime TE, an excellent offensive line, and a once in a lifetime QB. (Insert mahommes or ben here).

While mahommes makes their super bowl victory a foregone conclusion, having ben would still make them the favorites.

Fire Finctner now. There is zero comparison with the staff at KC.

[Sly]

Why, yes they would. Their coaches can actually coach and teach their players to run, block, and run a passing offense with their receivers and backs. Then add in ingenuity, a once in a lifetime TE, an excellent offensive line, and a once in a lifetime QB. (Insert mahommes or ben here).

While mahommes makes their super bowl victory a foregone conclusion, having ben would still make them the favorites.

Fire Finctner now. There is zero comparison with the staff at KC.

Take away Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill and let's see what great coaches the Chiefs have. Even with these superstars, the Chiefs margin of victory is usually small.

[flippy]

Is it the players or the coach?

The answer is easy.

Look at the SB favorite KC Chiefs. They have an awesome coach.

Say you had to bet your life savings on the Steelers and could snatch any one person from the Chiefs to do it...would it be that coach to replace Tomlin?

Your answer is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of why the Chiefs are SB favorites rather than the Steelers.

Not another LeVeon Bell thread.

Just kidding, we already got Steven Nelson so we should be good.

[NJ-STEELER]

Tomlin would have drafted a linebacker the year they traded up for mahomes.
look at his history here

[Captain Lemming]

Tomlin would have drafted a linebacker the year they traded up for mahomes.
look at his history here

Oh please. You blame Tomlin for drafting TJ WATT and not moving up to draft a QB, when Ben was setting career and franchise records?

We have both been on this list for a long time NJ. I know how you feel about Ben and Tomlin. It would require a boatload of picks to move up from 30 to 10.

You and I BOTH KNOW you would have positively LOST YOUR MIND if we did that in 2017. Don't you DARE deny it.

But let's disregard that. What is Colbert "history" leads you to think it is Tomlin rather than the guy whose job it is to design the roster?

The last first round QB a head coach or GM wanted to draft was MARK MALONE under Noll.

Colbert is in charge of player personnel. As he was when Dan Rooney forced Ben on him and Cowher.

Colbert had a grocery store worker at QB and wasn't gonna draft Ben. To blame Tomlin for not moving up 20 spots to draft Mahommes is ridiculous.

When you have a GM of 21 years who has NEVER been for drafting a first round QB I would suggest putting it on Tomlin is a joke.

[Captain Lemming]

Why, yes they would. Their coaches can actually coach and teach their players to run, block, and run a passing offense with their receivers and backs. Then add in ingenuity, a once in a lifetime TE, an excellent offensive line, and a once in a lifetime QB. (Insert mahommes or ben here).

While mahommes makes their super bowl victory a foregone conclusion, having ben would still make them the favorites.

Fire Finctner now. There is zero comparison with the staff at KC.

Yeah right.
How many rings does he have without the best QB in the league?

You gotta come better than that weak take Bugs Bunny.

[Captain Lemming]

Oh please. You blame Tomlin for drafting TJ WATT and not moving up to draft a QB, when Ben was setting career and franchise records?

We have both been on this list for a long time NJ. I know how you feel about Ben and Tomlin. It would require a boatload of picks to move up from 30 to 10.

You and I BOTH KNOW you would have positively LOST YOUR MIND if we did that in 2017. Don't you DARE deny it.

But let's disregard that. What is Colbert "history" leads you to think it is Tomlin rather than the guy whose job it is to design the roster?

The last first round QB a head coach or GM wanted to draft was MARK MALONE under Noll.

Colbert is in charge of player personnel. As he was when Dan Rooney forced Ben on him and Cowher.

Colbert had a grocery store worker at QB and wasn't gonna draft Ben. To blame Tomlin for not moving up 20 spots to draft Mahommes is ridiculous.

When you have a GM of 21 years who has NEVER been for drafting a first round QB I would suggest putting it on Tomlin is a joke.

BTW in his entire 30 year career between the Lions and Steelers outside of Rooney pulling rank on himthe ONLY first round QB picked during his tenure was ANDRE WARE 30 years ago. Drafted Ware didn't want Ben?

Don't be so sure Mahommes would be his target. More likely a move up for Rosen the next year with his "eye" for QBs.

[Sly]

Oh please. You blame Tomlin for drafting TJ WATT and not moving up to draft a QB, when Ben was setting career and franchise records?

We have both been on this list for a long time NJ. I know how you feel about Ben and Tomlin. It would require a boatload of picks to move up from 30 to 10.

You and I BOTH KNOW you would have positively LOST YOUR MIND if we did that in 2017. Don't you DARE deny it.

But let's disregard that. What is Colbert "history" leads you to think it is Tomlin rather than the guy whose job it is to design the roster?

The last first round QB a head coach or GM wanted to draft was MARK MALONE under Noll.

Colbert is in charge of player personnel. As he was when Dan Rooney forced Ben on him and Cowher.

Colbert had a grocery store worker at QB and wasn't gonna draft Ben. To blame Tomlin for not moving up 20 spots to draft Mahommes is ridiculous.

When you have a GM of 21 years who has NEVER been for drafting a first round QB I would suggest putting it on Tomlin is a joke.

Hindsight is always 20/20. I looked at several sites evaluating the top QB prospects for 2017. I didn't see Mahomes in the top 5 of any of the lists. Here's one from Fox Sports where Mahomes is ranked #8 of 10: https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-draft-2017-mock-quarterbacks-deshaun-watson-deshone-kizer-mitch-trubisky-unc-qb-sleeper-rankings-best-011917-011917-011917-011917-011917-011917-011917-011917-011917-011917-011917-011917-011917-011

[NJ-STEELER]

Oh please. You blame Tomlin for drafting TJ WATT and not moving up to draft a QB, when Ben was setting career and franchise records?

We have both been on this list for a long time NJ. I know how you feel about Ben and Tomlin. It would require a boatload of picks to move up from 30 to 10.

You and I BOTH KNOW you would have positively LOST YOUR MIND if we did that in 2017. Don't you DARE deny it.

But let's disregard that. What is Colbert "history" leads you to think it is Tomlin rather than the guy whose job it is to design the roster?

The last first round QB a head coach or GM wanted to draft was MARK MALONE under Noll.

Colbert is in charge of player personnel. As he was when Dan Rooney forced Ben on him and Cowher.

Colbert had a grocery store worker at QB and wasn't gonna draft Ben. To blame Tomlin for not moving up 20 spots to draft Mahommes is ridiculous.

When you have a GM of 21 years who has NEVER been for drafting a first round QB I would suggest putting it on Tomlin is a joke.

Isn’t the head coach a big part of the draft process?
have you ever watched the behind the scenes videos of the Steelers draft? It’s easy to see he’s a big part


we saw cowher didn’t want Ben and was talked into it.

we saw cowher (again) pass up a future HOF in brees to grab a 2 down NT in another year.

looking at his history in the draft there’s nothing to suggest that he would have tried to trade up for mahomes. But he did trade up to the sane spot to pick a 5’10 inside LB. giving the defense yet another high pick. Not sure if you remember, but KC had Alex smith at the time, tomlin might have thought him plus 30 high picks on the defense could win a championship. At times, That’s what it looks like he’s trying to do here

back to your original thought.
If coaching didn’t matter, why hasn’t brees won more then 1 SB? One of the all time greats. He’s been ousted by a Kirk cousins led Vikings team a few times.

[Starlifter]

To win a super bowl there aren’t many combinations.

Great players - great coach. Check and possible dynasty

Great players - good coach. Check, but limited window

Great players - bad coach. One and done.

Good players - great coach. Playoffs but unlikely SB

Good players - good coach. Week 17 decides the playoffs.

Good players - bad coach. Miss the playoffs by 2 games.

Bad players - great coach. Hoping for a winning season to build on

Bad players - good coach. 4-12.

Bad players - bad coach. J.E.T.S....Jets Jets Jets.

So it seems to me, great players factor more than great coaching - but both are critical.

[Northern_Blitz]

Isn’t the head coach a big part of the draft process?
have you ever watched the behind the scenes videos of the Steelers draft? It’s easy to see he’s a big part


we saw cowher didn’t want Ben and was talked into it.

we saw cowher (again) pass up a future HOF in brees to grab a 2 down NT in another year.

looking at his history in the draft there’s nothing to suggest that he would have tried to trade up for mahomes. But he did trade up to the sane spot to pick a 5’10 inside LB. giving the defense yet another high pick. Not sure if you remember, but KC had Alex smith at the time, tomlin might have thought him plus 30 high picks on the defense could win a championship. At times, That’s what it looks like he’s trying to do here

back to your original thought.
If coaching didn’t matter, why hasn’t brees won more then 1 SB? One of the all time greats. He’s been ousted by a Kirk cousins led Vikings team a few times.

The GM is responsible for draft picks with input from HC and scouts IMO.

Unless the owner pulls rank, like when we drafted Ben