Fire Mike Tomlin

[Mr.wizard]

you are out of your mind

the challenges are very valuable, you only get 2 a game.
to challenge a call that early for a 10 yard difference is assinine

saying you don't have the luxury to look ahead in the game is idiotic. that's exactly whata head coach should do.
instead we got the typical "cheerleader" response from the head coach that Terry talked about. He needs to take the emotional aspect of the game away when their making these decisions
every one on the sidelines is screaming it was a bad call as well as every steeler fan watching it. That doesn't mean he should go and challange it.
its his job to determine if the call has a chance to be reversed and the risk/reward of using it at that point of the game.

Wrong, a coach doesn't overlook actual situations that he is in during a game to try and prepare for hypothetical situations that may occur in the 4th quarter. It's like the situation where the coach may use a timeout early the 3rd quarter to prevent a delay of game and somebody says, "Oh that was dumb he may need that timeout later". He may need that timeout later and he may not, it may be more important to score on the current drive than to keep a timeout, you can't possibly know until the game plays out,

[steelz09]

Wrong, a coach doesn't overlook actual situations that he is in during a game to try and prepare for hypothetical situations that may occur in the 4th quarter. It's like the situation where the coach may use a timeout early the 3rd quarter to prevent a delay of game and somebody says, "Oh that was dumb he may need that timeout later". He may need that timeout later and he may not, it may be more important to score on the current drive than to keep a timeout, you can't possibly know until the game plays out,

This is pretty ridiculous but now it makes sense why you defend Tomlin in many cases where others are critical. What you just explained above is the definition of poor in game management by a head coach.

[Oh wow]

Lmao. We win 28 to 3 and Tomlin is a cheerleader who showed poor in game management.

My goodness, you folks really hate this man.

[whatever]

The Steelers did get screwed like the Saints last year, just not in a conference championship game.

The problem with the Saints game was that the officiating was horrible, not that the play couldn't be challenged.

I guess I assume that the play would have been overturned, but who really knows. I think the history of replay shows that it doesn't really make people feel like the game gets officiated more accurately.

Yup, and fans are still crying about it AND still talk about it as 'a win' against the Pats.
I bet if that play could have been challenged and the result would have been a td, not too many Steelers fans would be upset that they got it correct.

[Northern_Blitz]

Yup, and fans are still crying about it AND still talk about it as 'a win' against the Pats.
I bet if that play could have been challenged and the result would have been a td, not too many Steelers fans would be upset that they got it correct.

It's funny because that's not the play I was talking about. I think that was definitely the right call.

Instead, I was thinking about losses last year on the dubious PI call on Haden and the false starts that weren't called against the Saints or the Chargers (the Chargers one is more egregious). Those were all important calls in close games that could have changed the outcome.
Link to page showing both plays: https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh...7/#126825487_2

But, I'm sure every team gets crappy calls against them every year. Some are in close games.

The players have to win the game on the field. Sometimes even when human refs make mistakes.

I also think it basically evens out in the long term.

[RuthlessBurgher]

There were 3 very questionable PI calls late in that Saints game. They all involved Haden. He got called twice for defensive PI (if I recall correctly, one was in the end zone, and the other converted a 4th down to a first down on New Orleans last drive...game would have essentially ended right there), and then Michael Thomas should have been called for offensive PI since he blatantly pushed off on Haden on the game-winning TD catch.

That false start against the Chargers was the most egregious missed penalty I'd ever seen (until the infamous Saints playoff debacle happened). Dude didn't just flinch like normally happens...he was able to take 2 full steps back into his blocking stance before the ball was even snapped, and the Chargers threw a long TD pass.

However, false start was never reviewable. Which is odd. They make a subjective judgment penalty call like PI reviewable, but they don't make objective black and white plays like false starts reviewable. Makes no sense.

[Northern_Blitz]

There were 3 very questionable PI calls late in that Saints game. They all involved Haden. He got called twice for defensive PI (if I recall correctly, one was in the end zone, and the other converted a 4th down to a first down on New Orleans last drive...game would have essentially ended right there), and then Michael Thomas should have been called for offensive PI since he blatantly pushed off on Haden on the game-winning TD catch.

That false start against the Chargers was the most egregious missed penalty I'd ever seen (until the infamous Saints playoff debacle happened). Dude didn't just flinch like normally happens...he was able to take 2 full steps back into his blocking stance before the ball was even snapped, and the Chargers threw a long TD pass.

However, false start was never reviewable. Which is odd. They make a subjective judgment penalty call like PI reviewable, but they don't make objective black and white plays like false starts reviewable. Makes no sense.

I think it's because the league makes decisions based on public perception.

PI was a huge talking point after the NFCC. So, they do something about PI (even though it sucks).

I agree that false starts would be easier to call. But if the NFL implemented it, we'd be forced to watch frame by frame slow motion replays of when linemen started moving and it would bog the game down even more. The NHL is doing this now with off sides and it sucks.

The original NFL replay rules were good. Not a lot of challenges. Can't challenge penalties. Need to specifically point out what you're challenging. But, it just creeps larger and larger all the time.

I think it's super boring and I don't think it has led to dramatically better officiating.

Did a guy fumble it the frame before his knee touched the ground, or the frame after his knee touched the ground? Personally, I think you shouldn't be able to be saved by technicalities like that. If the ref felt it was a fumble in the flow of the game, that should be good enough. If you don't want to be at the whim of the ref, don't fumble the ball.

[whatever]

It's a no win situation for the NFL. Fans complain about the reviews, challenges, etc. because it takes too long blah blah.
If the league eliminates the reviews, challenges etc., then the fans cry they always get screwed by the refs and the NFL is fixed.

[Northern_Blitz]

It's a no win situation for the NFL. Fans complain about the reviews, challenges, etc. because it takes too long blah blah.
If the league eliminates the reviews, challenges etc., then the fans cry they always get screwed by the refs and the NFL is fixed.

Do you think that increasing reviews has reduced the number of fans that cry they always get screwed by the refs and accuse the league of being fixed?

I think that was the initial argument for putting replay in, but I think it's pretty clear that it doesn't achieve that result.

I think it's only gotten worse because replay gives fans the expectation that officiating will be perfect. But, the calls that get replayed are often subjective or come down to technicalities that get decided by frame by frame analysis of slow motion footage.

[Mr.wizard]

This is pretty ridiculous but now it makes sense why you defend Tomlin in many cases where others are critical. What you just explained above is the definition of poor in game management by a head coach.

No its how every coach coaches, they dont sacrifice drives to save timeouts or challenges to suggest that they do is absurd. The current drive is what you are able to manage during the game, you cant manage 4th quarter drives in the 2nd quarter that havent happened yet. Your trying to suggest that challenges should be saved until the 4th quarter because thats where the game is decided, nothing could be further from the truth.

[steelz09]

Why is it that the NFL has the worst, most inefficient replays, worst camera angles and sometimes they look like their using a Fischer Price camera.

They do not leverage technology available to them to solve easy problems.

And money certainly isn't a problem.

Just about every other sport that has a replay/challenge is better at executing that process than the NFL.

And in a lot of cases, the NFL still gets it wrong!

[flippy]

Did a guy fumble it the frame before his knee touched the ground, or the frame after his knee touched the ground? Personally, I think you shouldn't be able to be saved by technicalities like that. If the ref felt it was a fumble in the flow of the game, that should be good enough. If you don't want to be at the whim of the ref, don't fumble the ball.

I agree. If they could follow this rule and handle challenges with this in mind, replay might work.

Maybe something like the replay guy watches the play 1 time from X angles at full speed. And he's gotta overturn a call only if there's clear evidence the zebra on the field got it wrong. Not sure if this makes sense, but the replay guy has to make the call very quickly just like he's a ref on the field. He literally gets 20 seconds to rule. No thinking. No over analyzing. No 100 slow mo replays on the broadcast for 10 minutes dissecting every blade of grass and shadow from every angle. No technicalities.

Or we can just go without replay and live with the ref's calls.

In reality, the only opinion that matters is vegas and the bettors.

[papillon]

Just do away with replay, coaches in the booth, iPads to watch the previous series and lets play football. Let the game be played the way it was designed to be played on the field by the players and coaches, no bird's-eye view of plays, put the OC or play caller on the field with no communication until halftime with the coaches "upstairs" watching the game (same for defense). I dislike replay and I dislike all the technology being used. The game was more fun to watch when everything didn't have to try and be perfect.

Oh wait, this is the "Fire Mike Tomlin" thread, so fire Mike Tomlin!

Pappy

[Oviedo]

Just do away with replay, coaches in the booth, iPads to watch the previous series and lets play football. Let the game be played the way it was designed to be played on the field by the players and coaches, no bird's-eye view of plays, put the OC or play caller on the field with no communication until halftime with the coaches "upstairs" watching the game (same for defense). I dislike replay and I dislike all the technology being used. The game was more fun to watch when everything didn't have to try and be perfect.

Oh wait, this is the "Fire Mike Tomlin" thread, so fire Mike Tomlin!

Pappy

Don't you know that Mike Tomlin is completely responsible to the NFL replay system, the technology used, the process for replay and global warming.

I actually thought that Tomlin was fired 61 pages ago because of the demands of the people

[RuthlessBurgher]

Why is it that the NFL has the worst, most inefficient replays, worst camera angles and sometimes they look like their using a Fischer Price camera.

They do not leverage technology available to them to solve easy problems.

And money certainly isn't a problem.

Just about every other sport that has a replay/challenge is better at executing that process than the NFL.

And in a lot of cases, the NFL still gets it wrong!

I did like the small camera they installed at the bottom of the first down marker for this game.

They only played one replay from it during this past game, but at least it is there in case of a questionable spot that can help determine if a ball carrier passed the required distance needed for a first down before their knee hits the turf.

It was similar to the pylon cameras that have been used to help determine if a runner broke the plane at the goal line.

Certainly a better use of technology than Booger riding in a cherry picker contraption on MNF last year.