Rooney Brown meeting

[Northern_Blitz]

Nope.

I think you hate Tomlin because you have unrealistic expectations for your favorite football team and you've chosen him as the person to blame because you think coaches are more important than players for success.

And I think I probably should have something like hates that Tomlin is our coach

[squidkid]

You keep moving the goalposts.

Aspiration means hope.

Hoping to make the SB isn't the same as expecting to go to the superbowl.

And my whole point is that expecting to go to the SB 5 times in 13 years in unreasonable.

It shouldn't be a firing offense for a coach to have been to the 2nd most SBs of any team in the league over his tenure.

There may be legit reasons to question Tomlin, but lack of SB appearances doesn't seem to be a legit issue based on other teams that aren't the best dynasty of all time

no, you keep doing it.
your saying that every team in the league has the same chance to make the super bowl. only 2 can get there, but players, coaches, schedule, injury and such have no impact on that.
funny, because miilions of dollrs are wagered every year on just that.........prediction and probability
when you are one of the top 5-6 teams in the league(sometimes higher) expecting them to play to their potential is not unreasonable

[Northern_Blitz]

North, if Tomlin coaches another 10 years, on top of the ten he's already wasted, he won't win a super bowl.

That's what the math would say for every coach. That's why it's the "expected result".

You'd expect to have to wait about 32 years for a coach to win and 16 for a coach to be in the SB.

It seems to me you look at the Steelers and say "They don't meet my expectations".

There are two potential alternatives:
1) That's because there's something they are doing to scuttle their chances or
2) That's because your expectations are too high.

And really, even (1) means that there is something you're not accounting for when setting expectations.

But, we can run some data to see which is more reasonable.

When you do that and see that your team is more successful than all but one or two teams depending on the metric and the time frame, it's probably that your expectations are out of whack.

Especially when (1) the team that always comes out ahead of them in all metrics is the most successful dynasty of all time and (2) they've generally done better than other teams that have better QBs in the same time frame.

[squidkid]

Nope.

I think you hate Tomlin because you have unrealistic expectations for your favorite football team and you've chosen him as the person to blame because you think coaches are more important than players for success.

the problem is, we have had enough talent to have those expectations. we havent had the coach to put those talents in the best position to win

[Northern_Blitz]

no, you keep doing it.
your saying that every team in the league has the same chance to make the super bowl. only 2 can get there, but players, coaches, schedule, injury and such have no impact on that.
funny, because miilions of dollrs are wagered every year on just that.........prediction and probability
when you are one of the top 5-6 teams in the league(sometimes higher) expecting them to play to their potential is not unreasonable

My argument has always been the same in this thread. The Steelers have performed above expectations over the last 13 years based on SB appearances. You can check the data a page or two back if you like.

If you think odds are about win percentage instead of trying to even out the bets so the house makes money on the juice: I'd guess that the odds makers didn't have the Steelers as the favorite to represent the AFC in either of the two years you mentioned (or any year Brady was healthy). My guess is that they always have the Pats as the odd on favorite to represent the AFC.

4 of your top 6 teams in the league don't make the SB. And that's not randomly distributed either...especially since Brady and BB got together.

These are all the same arguments that were used against Cowher throughout his career. But he flipped heads near the end of his time in Pittsburgh so some people Sainted him.

[squidkid]

That's what the math would say for every coach. That's why it's the "expected result".

You'd expect to have to wait about 32 years for a coach to win and 16 for a coach to be in the SB.

It seems to me you look at the Steelers and say "They don't meet my expectations".

There are two potential alternatives:
1) That's because there's something they are doing to scuttle their chances or
2) That's because your expectations are too high.

And really, even (1) means that there is something you're not accounting for when setting expectations.

But, we can run some data to see which is more reasonable.

When you do that and see that your team is more successful than all but one or two teams depending on the metric and the time frame, it's probably that your expectations are out of whack.

Especially when (1) the team that always comes out ahead of them in all metrics is the most successful dynasty of all time and (2) they've generally done better than other teams that have better QBs in the same time frame.

only if you think all 32 teams have the same talent
do you think all teams are the same, talent wise?

[Northern_Blitz]

the problem is, we have had enough talent to have those expectations. we havent had the coach to put those talents in the best position to win

I think the Pats have always been a more talented team than us in the AFC. They always have a much better QB and they usually have a better D.

[Northern_Blitz]

only if you think all 32 teams have the same talent
do you think all teams are the same, talent wise?

No, but I don't think that the difference in talent is dramatic enough to make the math much different. Maybe the Steelers have a 1/16 or even a 1/12 chance to win the SB every year?

I'd probably argue that it's impossible to put a real number on it because we don't get a sample large enough to wash out the randomness (that's what makes sports fun).

[squidkid]

I'd bet that the odds makers didn't have the Steelers as the favorite to represent the AFC in either of the two years you mentioned (or any year Brady was healthy). My guess is that they always have the Pats as the odd on favorite to represent the AFC.

4 of your top 6 teams in the league don't make the SB. And that's not randomly distributed either...especially since Brady and BB got together.

yawn, im getting tired
once again, my point is when you are the one of the top talented teams in the afc, #1 or #2, you should be playing in the afcc. if you are #3 or #4, you should be playing in the divisional. if you arent making it that far, you underachieved. if you are getting beat by a wild card team, you seriously underachieved.
and just because you may be ranked a little lower, doesnt mean you shouldnt be able to formulate a game plan and beat that better team once in awhile................it sure seems like that happens against us a bunch.

how can you look at the regular season and not expect the post season to follow suit?

[squidkid]

No, but I don't think that the difference in talent is dramatic enough to make the math much different. Maybe the Steelers have a 1/16 or even a 1/12 chance to win the SB every year?

I'd probably argue that it's impossible to put a real number on it because we don't get a sample large enough to wash out the randomness (that's what makes sports fun).

you keep flip flopping. you say coaching doesnt matter as much as players then you say all teams players are basically the same.
i bet i could (and you could) make a list of 10 teams that you think will play in the super bowl next year, and i would be shocked if one of my teams didnt make it.
i bet once the playoffs started, i could list 4 that i think will be in it. and shocked if they didnt
why is that?

[Northern_Blitz]

yawn, im getting tired
once again, my point is when you are the one of the top talented teams in the afc, #1 or #2, you should be playing in the afcc. if you are #3 or #4, you should be playing in the divisional. if you arent making it that far, you underachieved. if you are getting beat by a wild card team, you seriously underachieved.
and just because you may be ranked a little lower, doesnt mean you shouldnt be able to formulate a game plan and beat that better team once in awhile................it sure seems like that happens against us a bunch.

how can you look at the regular season and not expect the post season to follow suit?

And when we looked at who played the most AFCCs, the most SBs and the most playoff games in the league since Tomlin was HC, do you remember the results?

[squidkid]

And when we looked at who played the most AFCCs, the most SBs and the most playoff games in the league since Tomlin was HC, do you remember the results?

whats your point?

[Northern_Blitz]

yawn, im getting tired
once again, my point is when you are the one of the top talented teams in the afc, #1 or #2, you should be playing in the afcc. if you are #3 or #4, you should be playing in the divisional. if you arent making it that far, you underachieved. if you are getting beat by a wild card team, you seriously underachieved.
and just because you may be ranked a little lower, doesnt mean you shouldnt be able to formulate a game plan and beat that better team once in awhile................it sure seems like that happens against us a bunch.

how can you look at the regular season and not expect the post season to follow suit?

Why do you think playoff seeds are important but regular season records aren't?

[Steel Maniac]

Nope.

I think you hate Tomlin because you have unrealistic expectations for your favorite football team and you've chosen him as the person to blame because you think coaches are more important than players for success.

And that's where your logic is flawed; Because a good head coach is more important. The Rams proved that with the switch from Jeff Fisher to McVay. Same players, but a new coach came in (right coach) and made that team into a winner.

You think players are more important and I just proved you wrong. I don't hate Tomlin; he's just something that is holding us back now from moving forward to our greatness.

And my expectations are realistic considering the teams we've had for the last 8 years. Your expectations are lowered by all this constant underachieving and what you've done to make yourself content is watered down our traditional expectations in you mind to settle for this.

[Northern_Blitz]

And that's where your logic is flawed; Because a good head coach is more important. The Rams proved that with the switch from Jeff Fisher to McVay. Same players, but a new coach came in (right coach) and made that team into a winner.

You think players are more important and I just proved you wrong. I don't hate Tomlin; he's just something that is holding us back now from moving forward to our greatness.

And my expectations are realistic considering the teams we've had for the last 8 years. Your expectations are lowered by all this constant underachieving and what you've done to make yourself content is watered down our traditional expectations in you mind to settle for this.

I'll bet you McVay never wins a SB. If you're interested in a bet where you take a team I take the field, I'll happily take the better odds.

He'd be getting slaughtered on this board (rightfully so) for benching his best player in the playoffs because he seemed to buy into the clippings that said he was an offensive guru.

People would also be killing him for not scoring any points in the SB despite being an offensive genius.