Le'Veon Bell

[Buzz]

It's unfortunate and bothers me that both LB and AB found their way to teams that will contend for a SB. It's not that I wish anything bad on them - well, perhaps I do. Just being honest.

I'll feel really good about this season if neither of them get a ring, and even better if the Steelers get another while having done it without them.

With ya, especially on that last part

[Captain Lemming]

doing just fine.. lmao.

they lost last week.

Look at who we play today. Henry is a monster. Are they just fine if Henry went down for an extended period of time?

Who are we game planning to stop? That type of impact has value.

Again you miss the point.

Derrick Henry is EXACTLY what I'm talking about

In EVERY GAME THIS SEASON the other team has a better back than we have.

Not only have we vanquished every team.

JAMES CONNER WAS LEADING RUSHER ON BOTH SIDES IN EVERY HEALTHY GAME. Snell was the leading rusher in the other game.

Why Dizz?

Henry is just the last of the star backs on EVERY OPPONENT that was outgained by a Steeler.

Why?

I will repeat my earlier truth:

My point is not that a team is better with a lesser back. My point is that the difference in team benefit of an elite RB is not commensurate with the cost.

If you save on a back and spend that money elsewhere, the money is.better used elsewhere.

Save money on elite backs and receivers and spend it on DEFENSE.

That is why Willie Parker led a SuperBowl in rushing and owns a SB record, while THE NFL MVP was a non-factor in that same game Dizz.

I told you before the game Henry would not beat us. Tannehill and Ben made it close.

[hawaiiansteel]

Chiefs are favored by 21 points in the upcoming Le'Veon Bell Revenge Bowl.

I think Andy Reid will feed Le'Veon early and often to let him get his yards and TDs.

[Northern_Blitz]

doing just fine.. lmao.

they lost last week.

Look at who we play today. Henry is a monster. Are they just fine if Henry went down for an extended period of time?

Who are we game planning to stop? That type of impact has value.

Felt.

The cap hits matter here.

Here are the cap hits for the Titans this year:
Ryan Tannehill: $22.5M
Derrick Henry: $6M

At those numbers, it's easy to afford a running back. Because Tannehil is still comparatively cheap*, and Henry doesn't have the cap hit of an elite RB. This is less than 1/2 of the cap hit Bell would have had if he played out his contract with the Jets.

Pointing to Henry this year and last year is actually supporting Capt. Lemming's point.

Will be interesting to see what the Titans do next year when the cap hits are:
Ryan Tannehill: $29.5M
Derrick Henry: $13.5M

I think they still find a way to keep Henry then because the dead money hit is $19.5M.

But the year after that the cap hits become:
Ryan Tannehill: $34M
Derrick Henry: $15M

And the dead money hit to cut Henry is $6M. I think he probably gets cut then. He's on pace for something like 400 touches this season.

I think they run the wheels off him over the next two years (like we did Bell) and then cut him when his cap hit is too high and the dead money isn't terrible.

Especially because Tannehill's cap hit ratchets up pretty hard in the next two years.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennessee-titans/ryan-tannehill-9818/

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennessee-titans/derrick-henry-18994/

* Ben's cap hit this year is also "only" ~$24M. But all of our can kicking is going to hurt eventually. He's slated to have a hit of >$41 next year. But I bet we extend and kick a bunch of that down the road. Keep doing it until he's retired / not really good enough to play. Even with all the massaging, I think this is our "last best chance" with Ben.

[Northern_Blitz]

It's unfortunate and bothers me that both LB and AB found their way to teams that will contend for a SB. It's not that I wish anything bad on them - well, perhaps I do. Just being honest.

I'll feel really good about this season if neither of them get a ring, and even better if the Steelers get another while having done it without them.

If it makes you feel better, they both probably lost tremendous amounts of money.

Bell's down something like $15M - $20M vs. if he took our long term deal the 2nd time.

I don't know about Brown, but I assume that he didn't get paid much / at all last season and he's playing on a 1 year $1M deal (pro rated?) this year.

I'd be happy for Bell if he has success (except against us) and ends up getting another lucrative contract. He was just making a business decision.

I don't feel the same way about AB, but maybe I'm just being petty. I do hope that he gets help. More importantly, I hope his children get help.

[Captain Lemming]

There are different ways to win games in the NFL.

True. But you DONT WIN blowing cap money on elite receivers and backs.

The last high salary (for the time) back to start a SB win was MARSHALL FAULK.

[Captain Lemming]

Bell is a great value right now. Smart move by the Chiefs. I would LOVE for the Chiefs or another AFC contender to overpay Bell again. Sadly, it is not likely.

[Captain Lemming]

Let me add this point Dizz. These Steelers. The last undefeated team in the NFL...Is structured PRECISELY the way I have been advocating BY ACCIDENT.

For the first time since we were last SUPERBOWL CONTENDERS we have nothing but cheap backs and receivers playing with an Elite QB on offense and have pursued and extended defensive talent.

I said "thank you Bell for your greed" many times on this forum Dizz. We FINALLY aren't getting a stupid cap hit from Brown who "I" alone NEVER WANTED TO SIGN.

I begged the team to aquire free agent DBs instead of paying Brown or Bell. I "specifically" suggested Gilmore which you mocked his first year with NE before he took off there.

We went out and got dbs from other teams. We aren't overpaying receivers and backs.

Here we are dude.
Best record in the NFL.

[BURGH86STEEL]

True. But you DONT WIN blowing cap money on elite receivers and backs.

The last high salary (for the time) back to start a SB win was MARSHALL FAULK.

I think extreme approach to anything isn't the right answer. Maintaining a balanced roster and spending as much as possible is key. Ultimately what you seem to be saying is that elite WR's and RB's don't help teams win game and championships. I don't think that's correct.

Winning games happens by spending money on WRs and RBs. I don't know all the salaries for RBs and WRs over the years. Doesn't really matter. Teams have to spend a lot of money on RBs and WRs. How much money that's allocated is the key. How are you defining elite?

The Steelers won games with Brown and Bell. Other teams won with WR's and RB's. Teams were in position to compete for the SB.

At the end of the day there isn't a perfect way to build a SB winner. Simply because there are MANY FACTORS involved with building rosters.

Teams build rosters and resign players in which they believe can help their teams win games. Win games, win the division, make the playoffs, and you give your team a chance to compete for the SB.

As a fan I want the best team possible to compete for the SB. I also understand there must be a balance. I don't believe it's ever a good idea for teams to simply discard RBs, WRs, or any other position by believing teams "DONT WIN by blowing capp money on elite WRs or RBs".

I believe the Titans were correct to offer Henry an extension. The Chiefs were also correct to offer Hill an extension. I don't believe those extensions cripple the team's abilities to compete and win.

[Captain Lemming]

I think extreme approach to anything isn't the right answer. Maintaining a balanced roster and spending as much as possible is key. Ultimately what you seem to be saying is that elite WR's and RB's don't help teams win game and championships. I don't think that's correct.

Winning games happens by spending money on WRs and RBs. I don't know all the salaries for RBs and WRs over the years. Doesn't really matter. Teams have to spend a lot of money on RBs and WRs. How much money that's allocated is the key. How are you defining elite?

The Steelers won games with Brown and Bell. Other teams won with WR's and RB's. Teams were in position to compete for the SB.

At the end of the day there isn't a perfect way to build a SB winner. Simply because there are MANY FACTORS involved with building rosters.

Teams build rosters and resign players in which they believe can help their teams win games. Win games, win the division, make the playoffs, and you give your team a chance to compete for the SB.

As a fan I want the best team possible to compete for the SB. I also understand there must be a balance. I don't believe it's ever a good idea for teams to simply discard RBs, WRs, or any other position by believing teams "DONT WIN by blowing capp money on elite WRs or RBs".

I believe the Titans were correct to offer Henry an extension. The Chiefs were also correct to offer Hill an extension. I don't believe those extensions cripple the team's abilities to compete and win.

You ever watch "Moneyball"?

I believe positions have a different level of value towards a championship. We all know this to some degree, thus we know not to pay the leagues best punter, like an average QB.

But I have made the case for YEARS that elite receivers and even more so elite backs pay is far beyond their actual value. The league is GLUTTED with talent at those positions.

[Captain Lemming]

Ultimately what you seem to be saying is that elite WR's and RB's don't help teams win game and championships. I don't think that's correct.

Winning games happens by spending money on WRs and RBs. I don't know all the salaries for RBs and WRs over the years. Doesn't really matter. Teams have to spend a lot of money on RBs and WRs.

Really?
There is one undefeated team in the NFL. You know how much cap is spent on receiver and runningback?

The Steelers ENTIRE ROSTER of backs and receivers....UNDER 9 million cap hit. Total.

2017 Brown alone was 17 million..nearly double that. Add 12 Mil for Bell alone.

[feltdizz]

Really?
There is one undefeated team in the NFL. You know how much cap is spent on receiver and runningback?

The Steelers ENTIRE ROSTER of backs and receivers....UNDER 9 million cap hit. Total.

2017 Brown alone was 17 million..nearly double that. Add 12 Mil for Bell alone.

I’m happy we are winning but let’s not get carried away. You’ve set up the argument to where we have to win a SB this year or the formula doesn’t work.

I’ve always said if we win a SB without AB and Bell I will concede you were correct. If not, you are just spinning your wheels and jumping on SB winners while ignoring the other 15 or so teams that followed your formula but didn’t make or win a SB.

[BURGH86STEEL]

You ever watch "Moneyball"?

I believe positions have a different level of value towards a championship. We all know this to some degree, thus we know not to pay the leagues best punter, like an average QB.

But I have made the case for YEARS that elite receivers and even more so elite backs pay is far beyond their actual value. The league is GLUTTED with talent at those positions.

Football isn't baseball.

[Captain Lemming]

I’m happy we are winning but let’s not get carried away. You’ve set up the argument to where we have to win a SB this year or the formula doesn’t work.

I’ve always said if we win a SB without AB and Bell I will concede you were correct. If not, you are just spinning your wheels and jumping on SB winners while ignoring the other 15 or so teams that followed your formula but didn’t make or win a SB.

No Dizz. I am NOT making the case that NOT paying those positions is any guarantee. How good is your QB? How wisely do you spend the money saved?

The point is that paying elite coin to those positions does not enhance your opportunities to win championships. It hurts it because elite players at those positions are paid disproportionately high. You can have TWO top 10 paid backs (around 7 mil) for the amount a handful of elites are paid. That is ridiculous.

Spend that same money smarter, and your team will be better.

[Captain Lemming]

Football isn't baseball.

Yes, that is why only the ONE TEAM knows moneyball works in football have dominated this era.