PFF Says Steelers 1st and 2nd rd picks (Burns n Davis) are top 16 worst picks

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Many times, the more excited fans are about a draft, the worse it turns out to be (Exhibit A: The Rashard Mendenhall & Limas Sweed draft), and the less excited fans are about a draft, the better it turns out to be (Exhibit B: The Maurkice Pouncey & Antonio Brown draft).

I don't care what you say Ruthless, Brown was a reach.

Seriously though, it is easy for us to say "I watched a few games this guy played in college and..." but these guys go to watch them play. They interview them face to face. They watch hours of tape, they talk to their coaches, they know exactly what job they want these guys to perform. I can't imagine how arrogant I would have to be to think that I have seen more than these guys and know something from watching that they don't. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we get it wrong, but to think that the team does not realize that they played a lot of zone last year and Burns did not do well in zone is ridiculous.

[Captain Lemming]

2 points.
1. I was talking Steeler history. We have a great record in building raw talent into excellent players. In fact just about every first round miss we have had they were productive college stars NOT workout warriors. From Troy Edwards to JJ NEVER was the mistake because of a raw but elite talent. Rather it happens when we ignore lack of talent because of college dominance. If we miss on Burns he will be the first round one miss on elite talent in YEARS. I can't think of one in decades. Who was that raw but talented giant tackle bust from the 90s? The name escapes me.

The STEELERS don't miss much when they choose raw talent.

2. If you MUST discuss the 2013 draft, let's do it. Sure JJ is the best of the busts. How bout talking about ONLY PASS RUSH BEAST of that first round? Somehow we forgot to mention the only guy who actually was worth a first round pick. Who was it?

The MOST RAW GUY BY FAR is the BEST PLAYER by far.

Ziggy Anzah is the EPITOME of the raw workout warrior with LOADS of potential. 4.5 sacks was his career high in college.

I will tell you I never used to think this way. I was with you excited about JJ.

But JJ and Anzah are the PERFECT EXAMPLE demonstrating the value that can be had, by developing elite talent.

[SteelerMaine83]

I think predicting a players success (or failure) in our defense prematurely is a mistake. From what I saw from Butler last year, he is his own DC, and he is different than LeBeau in a few ways: he was more aggressive in many situations than DL was his last few seasons with the team, and he is more apt to throw the younger guys into the mix. I think our D is changing with KB at the helm and I think we will continue to see a lot of different looks from him. This D will still make some bad mistakes, but they'll also make some plays.

[Captain Lemming]

I think predicting a players success (or failure) in our defense prematurely is a mistake. From what I saw from Butler last year, he is his own DC, and he is different than LeBeau in a few ways: he was more aggressive in many situations than DL was his last few seasons with the team, and he is more apt to throw the younger guys into the mix. I think our D is changing with KB at the helm and I think we will continue to see a lot of different looks from him. This D will still make some bad mistakes, but they'll also make some plays.

People keep with this ridiculous assertion.

2013 under DL rookie Jarvis J starts day one. Rookie Vince Williams finishes season as a starter. Even Shamarko starts a couple of games
2014 under DL rookie Ryan Shazier starts day one. Rookie Stephon Tuitt finishes season as a starter. Big Dan starts a game

2015 under Butler NO ROOKIE starts day one. Dupree finishes season as starter. DUPREE WAS THE ONLY ROOKIE DEFENDER TO START A SINGLE GAME and this forum rejoices because "finally a rookie gets to play" because Lebeau is gone?

6 OUT OF 8 PICKS WERE DEFENDERS and ZERO day ones starters and only ONE rookie EVER starts for the entire season? Hilarious.

[Captain Lemming]

I think predicting a players success (or failure) in our defense prematurely is a mistake. From what I saw from Butler last year, he is his own DC, and he is different than LeBeau in a few ways: he was more aggressive in many situations than DL was his last few seasons with the team, and he is more apt to throw the younger guys into the mix. I think our D is changing with KB at the helm and I think we will continue to see a lot of different looks from him. This D will still make some bad mistakes, but they'll also make some plays.

Sure there are no guarantees. That goes for just about any player, particularly a 20-something pick. My point is to hate the pick because he is talented but raw is premature considering the tremendous success we have had with that very profile.

[Slapstick]

It is the difference between viewing the draft picks as long-term building blocks instead of short-term band aids...

[RuthlessBurgher]

Who was that raw but talented giant tackle bust from the 90s? The name escapes me.

Jamain Stephens.

[SidSmythe]

The Fact that Cody Kessler isn't on this list blows it's validity right out of the water!

[RuthlessBurgher]

The Fact that Cody Kessler isn't on this list blows it's validity right out of the water!

Since the Browns are so good at choosing QB's, the author must have assumed that Kessler must be great if Cleveland took him.

[SteelYinzer]

Pro Football Focus was founded by a Brit, so he probably hates on Real Madrid more than the Steelers.

that may be true. So I checked. They're based out of Cincinatti. Doesn't necessarily mean they hate the Steelers and love the Bungles but it sure increases the odds and makes what I've heard believable.

Pulled from their website for job openings:

Local candidates only. This is a full-time position located in Cincinnati, Ohio, offering a competitive salary and benefits package. To apply, please send an email of interest, along with a CV or resumé and some code samples to [email]jobs@profootballfocus.com[/email].

[feltdizz]

People keep with this ridiculous assertion.

2013 under DL rookie Jarvis J starts day one. Rookie Vince Williams finishes season as a starter. Even Shamarko starts a couple of games
2014 under DL rookie Ryan Shazier starts day one. Rookie Stephon Tuitt finishes season as a starter. Big Dan starts a game

2015 under Butler NO ROOKIE starts day one. Dupree finishes season as starter. DUPREE WAS THE ONLY ROOKIE DEFENDER TO START A SINGLE GAME and this forum rejoices because "finally a rookie gets to play" because Lebeau is gone?

6 OUT OF 8 PICKS WERE DEFENDERS and ZERO day ones starters and only ONE rookie EVER starts for the entire season? Hilarious.

This is because our defense hit rock bottom and held onto vets trying to make one last run. DL had to throw rookies into the mix. Remember when DL said something like "V. Williams wouldn't even be on the team a few years ago"

The issue with DL was playing a poor vet over a more talented rookie due to experience and knowledge of the playbook. I still think it bled over into Butlers mantra because Blake was on the field when we all knew Boykin and Cockrell were a better option.

[phillyesq]

2 points.
1. I was talking Steeler history. We have a great record in building raw talent into excellent players. In fact just about every first round miss we have had they were productive college stars NOT workout warriors. From Troy Edwards to JJ NEVER was the mistake because of a raw but elite talent. Rather it happens when we ignore lack of talent because of college dominance. If we miss on Burns he will be the first round one miss on elite talent in YEARS. I can't think of one in decades. Who was that raw but talented giant tackle bust from the 90s? The name escapes me.

The STEELERS don't miss much when they choose raw talent.

2. If you MUST discuss the 2013 draft, let's do it. Sure JJ is the best of the busts. How bout talking about ONLY PASS RUSH BEAST of that first round? Somehow we forgot to mention the only guy who actually was worth a first round pick. Who was it?

The MOST RAW GUY BY FAR is the BEST PLAYER by far.

Ziggy Anzah is the EPITOME of the raw workout warrior with LOADS of potential. 4.5 sacks was his career high in college.

I will tell you I never used to think this way. I was with you excited about JJ.

But JJ and Anzah are the PERFECT EXAMPLE demonstrating the value that can be had, by developing elite talent.

You are generally right about the Steelers developing raw talent in the first. The flip side is that the position where the Steelers have struggled the most to develop talent is in the secondary. They haven't really developed a raw talent since Ike Taylor. Keenan Lewis was developed but he wasn't as raw. Cortez Allen looked like he'd be another Tayloresque 4th rounder, but that fizzled along with his health.

It will be interesting to see how this one turns out, and to see which trend prevails. Obviously, I think we're all hoping that Burns develops into a 10 year starter at corner.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

It will be interesting to see how this one turns out, and to see which trend prevails. Obviously, I think we're all hoping that Burns develops into a 10 year starter at corner.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Labriola in response to the Burns point.

As Don Shula told Kevin Colbert more than 30 years ago, “When you have red paint, paint the barn red.” Now that the Steelers have a cornerback capable of playing press coverage, I imagine they’ll allow him to do some of that.

Essentially saying that the Steelers played zone because they didn't have anyone capable of playing press. So...they went out and got a guy to play press. PFF seems to think that the Steelers have an unchangeable scheme and went out and drafted a guy who can't play in that scheme.

[Slapstick]

For years we had Ike man up on the opponents best WR and played off with the rest of the secondary...Butler has all of that game planning experience...