PFF Says Steelers 1st and 2nd rd picks (Burns n Davis) are top 16 worst picks

[Slapstick]

FWIW, I hated Mendenhall as the pick. As a guy who claims to be a RB expert, I just didn't like his vision/agility. He was all hype due to a big game (I think USC) where he ran through a lot of open holes. I wanted Jonathan Stewart from that draft.

Having said all that, I'm willing to concede that while I also don't like their draft, they know what they're trying to accomplish on the field and how those guys fit.

*I*, for example, wanted a run-stuffing NT with little pass rush - contrary to what the team wanted. Jarran Reed would have been my first round selection.
- I think it's desperation to go after a NT that is a good rusher - means you've failed at drafting the proper pass rushers on the outside (where's the young Lloyd, Porter, Harrison? Sorry, Jarvis ain't it)
- And, I don't want my nose tackle to be a backup DE - I want my backup DE to be a backup DE.
- I want my nose tackle to ensure that a) on 1st and 2nd, we can stop the run, and DICTATE that they have to pass where we can unleash our studly OLB's (which we're lacking); and even bigger b) if we're down at the end of the game and the team is trying to run the clock, THEY CANNOT. Because we got the best run-stuffer in the draft. Will be interesting to see us try to run against the Bengal this upcoming season.

Having said all that, I'm AGAIN willing to concede that they know their plan better than I do. I hope they're right

Who says Hargrave can't stop the run on 1st down?

Who said that he will be a backup DE? Being able to move inside on passing downs isn't the same as a backup DE...

I also wanted Jonathan Stewart, but the Panthers drafted him long before we had the opportunity to do so...

It isn't desperation to want an NT with pass rush ability...it is a desire not to draft a player who will be on the bench for the majority of the game...you may want to unleash your OLBs on passing downs, but if they have to go out and cover someone (like a RB out of the backfield), it is prudent to have a good inside rusher as well...

[papillon]

The three largest projects in the draft are Goff, Wentz and Lynch may be the biggest project having never been under center in his career.. I'm fairly certain that at one point last year people were discussing whether there would be QBs taken in the top half of the 1st round because the QB class was weak in general.

Pappy

[steelsnis]

I have the opposite drafting mind set than the Steelers. I like guys who love football, have heart, and are technicians (not saying the Steelers don't like that as well). I believe if you have a team full of those guys sprinkled with a few freak athletes you can field a very competitive team year after year. I prefer bird in the hand over "could be great some day". With all that said, the Steelers have proven they can develop talent in all areas with exception of the secondary. My hope is that they can groom this current crop of guys that I know I wouldn't have drafted.

How many guys in the draft are finished products? (e.g. "bird in the hand") People are acting like the 25th pick is a always a can't miss, ready from day one guy. Maybe a top 5 pick should be that, but not at 25.

[Shawn]

How many guys in the draft are finished products? (e.g. "bird in the hand") People are acting like the 25th pick is a always a can't miss, ready from day one guy. Maybe a top 5 pick should be that, but not at 25.

There are guys like Heyward and DeCastro who are technically sound and few doubted would make solid professionals. I would describe them both as bird in the hand guys. And I think you are reading more into my statement than I actually said...I never said cant miss or ready from day one. I personally prefer guys like Mosley over guys like Shazier. I would have drafted MacKenzie over Burns (though I would describe either as bird in the hand MacKenzie is way more NFL ready). But, don't take this as a criticism. I'm not even close to a professional scout and merely a man with an opinion. The Steelers have confidence they can develop raw talent. And they have a good track record for doing so.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Well said lol, don't get me wrong I really want this draft to be a great one I am just holding my reservations

I'm with you on that sentiment. It could turn out to be a great draft haul. But there are legitimate reasons to be concerned, IMO.

[SteelCrazy]

Artie Burns isn't that much of a project. He has the skill set, but just needs some NFL polishing. Maybe the coach in college explaining zone did it in a way Burns couldnt comprehend.

However, we'll see in August who we got.

[Iron City Inc.]

My 2 cents on MA. He was picked 54 overall by Zimm and he is a fine coach so this kid has talent but there are things on tape that are concerns. Transition to pro concepts the bail tech this cat played at Clemson will not fly at this level. He allowed to much separation on drag routes. Seemed like his route recognition just wasn't what it should be. Could get coached up there. Last saw him leave his feet and miss more then a few tackles. To sum him up I'd say he will be solid but not special. More like a William Gay then a Joe Haden.

[NorthCoast]

Of the 510 defensive backs drafted, 121 became starters.
You have the same success rate drafting a DB in the 7th round as you do drafting one in the 4th (11%)
On average, you have the following number of DBs taken per round: 1st - 6, 2nd - 6, 3rd - 7, 4th - 8, 5th - 8, 6th - 7, 7th - 9
After you get past the success rates of the first two rounds (64% in the first, 46% in the second), there isn't a huge difference in success (24% - 3rd, 11% - 4th, 17% - 5th, 8% - 6th, 11% - 7th)
DBs provide the best success potential in the 7th round versus other positions in that round.

If you don't select a DB in the first or second round, you may as well wait until the 7th rd to grab one. Chance of success is about the same as all of the middle rounds.

[Captain Lemming]

I have the opposite drafting mind set than the Steelers. I like guys who love football, have heart, and are technicians (not saying the Steelers don't like that as well). I believe if you have a team full of those guys sprinkled with a few freak athletes you can field a very competitive team year after year. I prefer bird in the hand over "could be great some day". With all that said, the Steelers have proven they can develop talent in all areas with exception of the secondary. My hope is that they can groom this current crop of guys that I know I wouldn't have drafted.

Shawn why is the secondary the exception? They haven't drafted talent at the position..We have been bringing in other people's garbage. The last pick with 1st round talent was Ike, who was a late pick because he was EXTREMELY raw. We drafted Lewis in the second and had success with him. Both were raw.

When they started we had the number one pass defense in the league by a WIDE margin.

[Captain Lemming]

Pre-draft PFF was VERY critical of Burns. They broke down the reasons why. The funny thing is that THE VERY POINTS THEY MAKE TO BASH HIM MAKE ME LIKE THE PICK. Here is what they said:

Artie Burns looks every bit an NFL corner, and is an ideal physical specimen from a size and speed standpoint. The issue is that his down-to-down play isn’t that special; he has a lot to work on to succeed at the NFL level.Burns hasn’t been bad in the past two seasons, but measurables are pushing him higher up boards than his play merits. There are some impressive numbers in there. He has allowed just two touchdowns over the past two seasons, one each year, and allowed an NFL passer rating into his coverage this past season of just 40.8. He is extremely physical in man coverage and can squeeze a receiver right off the field if given the chance, but his zone play lacks in technique and awareness. He plays as if just getting to a landmark and then trying to read the quarterback’s eyes to make the play, rather than showing any understanding of where the threat is coming from given the receivers and route combinations in his area.
There is definitely a lot to work with in Burns, but he needs to get a lot better to become a solid starting NFL corner. He certainly feels a lot more like a mid-round developmental prospect than a second-round sure thing.

Look closely. They can only criticize his "technique" thus the "raw" label. They are right. Now please consider this.
DUDE ALLOWS A 40.8 QB RATING WITH BAD TECNIQUE.
DUDE ALLOWED ONE SOLITARY TD A SEASON WITH BAD TECHNIQUE.
HE HAD SIX PICKS AND HAS BAD TECHNIQUE.
He has had greater statistical success then most cornerbacks and DOES NOT KNOW THE NUANCES OF HIS POSITION.

Thats like a DL getting 20 sacks but getting bashed because he has no moves and relies on his ridiculous speed and power. Moves can be taught. To excel WHEN YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING is even more impressive.

How can anyone have any confidence in their ability to coach and be scared to draft a kid with that kind of ability because he is raw?

[Shawn]

Lemming, we have taken many DBs in the last 10 years. No we haven't spent a first rounder on one but the vast majority of the guys we have brought in are no longer with us and are not quality starters. We've developed later round WRs into superstars. dBs not so much. So either it's a problem with scouting or a problem with development. I would venture a guess that the Steelers would actually agree with me. It's been a problem.

[Captain Lemming]

Lemming, we have taken many DBs in the last 10 years. No we haven't spent a first rounder on one but the vast majority of the guys we have brought in are no longer with us and are not quality starters. We've developed later round WRs into superstars. dBs not so much. So either it's a problem with scouting or a problem with development. I would venture a guess that the Steelers would actually agree with me. It's been a problem.

But this is the point my friend. We have NOT drafted the KIND of talent for secondary that we have receiver. We draft players with modest measurables for the secondary rather than DEVELOP elite talent. Exhibit 1 Golson last season. He will NEVER be a top corner in my opinion. You cannot draft a finished product with elite talent (Rod Woodson) picking low. How do you get top talent with a low pick? Stop taking "skilled" secondary players who's ceiling is reached in college. THAT is how we got Jones at OLBer.

Shawn I USED to agree with your EXACT POV. Look at what I was saying years ago.

But I am seeing success taking people with elite athleticism over the finished product who is less talented. You and I debated this same topic about receivers recently and now you acknowledge the success of the strategy for that position. I truly think the team has noticed this trend, and is moving to more athleticism as a result. We even went "athletic" as opposed to "Jabba clone" at NT.

[Slapstick]

Perhaps part of the reason we have developed elite talent at the QB position is that we have a top 5 franchise QB...

Perhaps part of the reason that we were able to have #1 pass defenses without much talent at QB was our tremendously talented front seven...

[Shawn]

But this is the point my friend. We have NOT drafted the KIND of talent for secondary that we have receiver. We draft players with modest measurables for the secondary rather than DEVELOP elite talent. Exhibit 1 Golson last season. He will NEVER be a top corner in my opinion. You cannot draft a finished product with elite talent (Rod Woodson) picking low. How do you get top talent with a low pick? Stop taking "skilled" secondary players who's ceiling is reached in college. THAT is how we got Jones at OLBer.

Shawn I USED to agree with your EXACT POV. Look at what I was saying years ago.

But I am seeing success taking people with elite athleticism over the finished product who is less talented. You and I debated this same topic about receivers recently and now you acknowledge the success of the strategy for that position. I truly think the team has noticed this trend, and is moving to more athleticism as a result. We even went "athletic" as opposed to "Jabba clone" at NT.

so your issue is with scouting. Fair enough. Honestly I'm not close enough to day to day operation to even guess. What I know is we have drafted guys who haven't developed. That problem is now biting us square in the butt.

[Slapstick]

But this is the point my friend. We have NOT drafted the KIND of talent for secondary that we have receiver. We draft players with modest measurables for the secondary rather than DEVELOP elite talent. Exhibit 1 Golson last season. He will NEVER be a top corner in my opinion. You cannot draft a finished product with elite talent (Rod Woodson) picking low. How do you get top talent with a low pick? Stop taking "skilled" secondary players who's ceiling is reached in college. THAT is how we got Jones at OLBer.

Shawn I USED to agree with your EXACT POV. Look at what I was saying years ago.

But I am seeing success taking people with elite athleticism over the finished product who is less talented. You and I debated this same topic about receivers recently and now you acknowledge the success of the strategy for that position. I truly think the team has noticed this trend, and is moving to more athleticism as a result. We even went "athletic" as opposed to "Jabba clone" at NT.

Again, this is not always the case...both Barkevious Mingo and Dion Jordan were athletically superior to Jarvis Jones, but he outperformed both last season...he also outperformed both in 2014 after being on IR for 10 games...