"burfict" ending haha

[Shawn]

Perhaps, but it wasn't called because Bernard actually held the ball...

If Shazier had gone for the head shot after the ball landed incomplete, like Burfict, you would have seen a flag...

it should have been called...helmet to helmet no matter what the scenario. So no we were not robbed a TD.

[Slapstick]

it should have been called...helmet to helmet no matter what the scenario. So no we were not robbed a TD.

Unless, at full speed, the refs ruled incidental contact. The downside of judgment calls (like when Richard Sherman shoved AB to the ground...some refs have very broad views of "incidental contact"). In any case, I'm less concerned with being robbed of a TD than how that TD would have most likely changed the game. I think if we go up 22-0, nobody gets hurt. The fact that they missed the call on Shazier or decided not to call it does not negate the fact that they blew the whistle too early...

[Captain Lemming]

Unless, at full speed, the refs ruled incidental contact. The downside of judgment calls (like when Richard Sherman shoved AB to the ground...some refs have very broad views of "incidental contact"). In any case, I'm less concerned with being robbed of a TD than how that TD would have most likely changed the game. I think if we go up 22-0, nobody gets hurt. The fact that they missed the call on Shazier or decided not to call it does not negate the fact that they blew the whistle too early...

Whether or not this particular helmet blow is incidental is not debatable as his helmet was a primary force in a tackle that knocked a player out. This has nothing to do with intent.

[Slapstick]

Whether or not this particular helmet blow is incidental is not debatable as his helmet was a primary force in a tackle that knocked a player out. This has nothing to do with intent.

Again, another definition of incidental is "liable to happen as a consequence of an activity"...like ducking your head when being tackled...

[papillon]

As I mentioned in another thread during the Seattle game Richard Sherman and a guy from the Vikings (not AP) had a helmet to helmet collision because the ball carrier lowered his head and Sherman lowered his head and they met helmet to helmet clear as day. No one, not the announcers, not the players, not the coaches, not the refs even made a peep about the hit. It was a normal play outside the tackle box by a ball carrier and a defensive back, they both lowered their heads and collided.

Shazier's looked worse because Bernard was trying to get moving but Shazier closed him down too fast and mollywhpped him. I think Steeler fans tend to agree that it was illegal because they don't want to sound calloused because of what happened to AB, so they will concede that Shazier's hit was illegal. Shazier has no past with being a head hunter, Bernard had actually caught the pass and a tackle was made. Rival fans are looking for anything to say, "see, you guys are as bad as Burfict" and not innocent in the whole affair.

The Bengals can't make chicken soup out of this chicken sh1t no matter how much they attempt to deflect blame from themselves and point at others to rationalize why they did what they did, which nearly every one of them has so far starting with Marvin Lewis (his "some penalties were called, others weren't" comment), to Pacman Jones and finally to Burfict.

Pappy

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I may be in the minority here, but, i didn't like the one where Wheaton was hit that was called against Cincy - at the time, i said, "As a fan, I'll take it, but, i don't like that call". 2 moving targets, guy lowers shoulder, helmets collide. I think it was similar to Gio's... either call both or neither.

[papillon]

I may be in the minority here, but, i didn't like the one where Wheaton was hit that was called against Cincy - at the time, i said, "As a fan, I'll take it, but, i don't like that call". 2 moving targets, guy lowers shoulder, helmets collide. I think it was similar to Gio's... either call both or neither.

Absolutely, a bad call IMO as well, there really wasn't helmet-to-helmet contact that I could see, it was simply a tough football play and Wheaton held on as well. There shouldn't have been a penalty and I hope the guy doesn't get fined.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

I think the NFL is all about protecting WR's in the air so anything that looks bad will be called.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I think that the rule is pretty straightforward. We might not always like it but it is somewhat clear.

Ball in the air, ball just caught, receiver still stretched out, you can't hit in the head or with the crown of your helmet. Once a receiver secures the ball, gets his feet down, makes a football move, he is fair game - there is no illegal hit.

Brown was obvious as he never had the ball.

Wheaton was still considered a defenseless receiver, and more often than not, if a defenseless receiver is hit anywhere near the head, or with what may look like the helmet is real time fast action, then the flag is thrown. In slo-mo, from the right camera angle, we can see that Wheaton's hit was more shoulder to shoulder, but with a second or two to throw a flag in real time, most officials throw it. I beleive that the league has said that it is better to call the penalty and have it only be close, then possibly have a head shot that isn't called.

Bernard made the catch, got about four steps down, and moved to turn. That is why he is no longer considered a defenseless receiver. Therefore, he can be hit as a runner, not a receiver, and that hit was legal on a runner. If a RB was running up the middle and collided with a LB in the same way that we saw on that hit, there would never ever be a flag. Same criteria here.

I know that some here believe that it should be a flaggable offense, but the problem in this case is with the rule, not the call. IMO the calls (or non-call) on Bernard and Brown were correct, and the call on Wheaton was incorrect when checking the replay, but a call that is almost always made.

[NorthCoast]

I think that the rule is pretty straightforward. We might not always like it but it is somewhat clear.

Ball in the air, ball just caught, receiver still stretched out, you can't hit in the head or with the crown of your helmet. Once a receiver secures the ball, gets his feet down, makes a football move, he is fair game - there is no illegal hit.

Brown was obvious as he never had the ball.

Wheaton was still considered a defenseless receiver, and more often than not, if a defenseless receiver is hit anywhere near the head, or with what may look like the helmet is real time fast action, then the flag is thrown. In slo-mo, from the right camera angle, we can see that Wheaton's hit was more shoulder to shoulder, but with a second or two to throw a flag in real time, most officials throw it. I beleive that the league has said that it is better to call the penalty and have it only be close, then possibly have a head shot that isn't called.

Bernard made the catch, got about four steps down, and moved to turn. That is why he is no longer considered a defenseless receiver. Therefore, he can be hit as a runner, not a receiver, and that hit was legal on a runner. If a RB was running up the middle and collided with a LB in the same way that we saw on that hit, there would never ever be a flag. Same criteria here.

I know that some here believe that it should be a flaggable offense, but the problem in this case is with the rule, not the call. IMO the calls (or non-call) on Bernard and Brown were correct, and the call on Wheaton was incorrect when checking the replay, but a call that is almost always made.

Lot of misperceptions on this rule and your are incorrect on the Shazier hit.

Rewatch the video closely. Shazier's head is already down while Bernard is looking forward at Shazier. As he approaches Shazier Bernard lowers his head to meet Shazier's.

The rule:

A 15-yard penalty will be called if a runner or a tackler initiates forcible contact by delivering a blow with the top/crown of his helmet against an opponent when both players clearly are outside the tackle box (an area extending from tackle-to-tackle and from 3 yards beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team's end line). Incidental contact by the helmet of a runner or a tackler against an opponent would not be deemed a foul.

It could very well be the refs decided that Bernard was equally culpable in the helmet to helmet contact and therefore did not throw the flag. This is the most reasonable explanation.

[raycafan]

Just saw on NFLNetwork Burfict suspended 3 games next season

[raycafan]

For repeated offenses not just last night

[papillon]

Burfict was assessed a 3 game suspension.

Pappy

[NorthCoast]

For the damage he has done to players this season and prior it's simply not enough.

[papillon]

For the damage he has done to players this season and prior it's simply not enough.

Not even close, should have been 6 or even 8.

Pappy