Belicheat at it again.

[MCHammer]

Not to mention such shenanigans don't just affect the Pats. They affect every team and the entire playoff schedule. Some people can always be relied upon to say things like you can't prove that you are just making stuff up. Yeah, and they can't prove it didn't happen either and this is not a criminal court where we have to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt. Cheating is a serious issue and must be dealt with harshly. For the record, I felt this way about Tomlin's little "accident" when he stepped onto the field. I would not have complained with the Steelers losing a draft pick. There should be no room in the game for this sh*t.

[Sugar]

At the end of the day, the Colts only scored 7 points and Blount ran all over them. The inflation of the ball had nothing to do with either of these things.

[Ghost]

I don't know the exact details of that game but, based on what you wrote.....
Did the pats break a rule? Not there job to lookout for the other team on what they need... so if something is not offered your a cheater..maybe the other coaches need to be smarter....

Fair question. Before the game started it was agreed upon by both teams and refs that occasional clearing of yard markers was allowed but that was it. Also, the other team, Miami, had no access to send out the plow if needed as they were the away team. NE had a resource that Miami did not and Had not expected the "neutral" plow to be used in that manner.

Was as it a (NFL) rule - technically no but it most certainly broke the rules of sportsmanship. And Miami certainly considered it cheating as they filed a formal protest (they lost).


You may not see that as cheating and that's fine. Me, I think they were cheating, devoid of sportsmanship, and valued winning at all costs over integrity.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

i thought i had read somewhere that guy was half drunk and a huge pats fan and did that on his own

the game was different back then. bringing that up as evidence of cheating seems like a stretch

[Ghost]

i thought i had read somewhere that guy was half drunk and a huge pats fan and did that on his own

the game was different back then. bringing that up as evidence of cheating seems like a stretch

Nope, sober, employee of the Pats grounds crew and on the job. Specifically went out on orders of the NE Coach. Not worth arguing about but he's not out there without NE sending him out

[NorthCoast]

likely the last post I will make on this topic, but some nice analysis done over here:

[URL]http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/science-is-all-like-ooh-ooh-we-can-explain-deflate-gate-with-our-magic/[/URL]

At the core of Deflate-gate is the question of whether the pressure inside 11 of the Patriots’ 12 game balls was purposefully under-inflated, or simply a function of nature exacting its toll on three-dimensional objects containing a gas.There are a few things we know about footballs and the physics of air pressure.
1) Footballs are permeable, meaning they lose air over the course of a game.
2) Footballs with less air pressure are easier to grip.
3) Footballs with less air pressure have less mass, and thus do not travel as far.
4) Temperature effects the pressure inside a football.
Assuming the referees did, in fact, measure psi prior to kickoff of Sunday’s AFC Championship game, all 12 balls must have started out with more than 12.5 pounds per square inch. If those balls were switched out or manually deflated by equipment managers — or at least 11 of them — then none of this science stuff matters because the Patriots would’ve been cheating by defrauding the officials’ measurements. But if they weren’t, there’s only one reasonable explanation: the balls naturally deflated.
Considering that any tampering accusations can only be proven with video evidence (or an open and shut scientific proof that 11 footballs cannot lose two psi over the course of a half), let’s look into the possibility that the weather at Foxborough could’ve decreased the pressure inside the under-inflated balls at the point in which they were re-measured at halftime.
One assessment of Deflate-gate concludes that balls measured in 70-degree room to be 12.5 psi two hours prior to the start of the game could decrease by as much .4 psi by kickoff.

Let’s assume that each ball was inflated to the minimum pressure required to meet the NFL rules regarding proper inflation: 12.5 psi. We convert psi (English) to pascals (Metric), which comes out to 86,184.5 Pa and assume room temperature (68ºF/20ºC) which converts to 293.15 K (Kelvin, the Metric equivalent). We now have,
86,184.5 Pa / 293.15 K = p2 / T2.
We’re down to two variables. But we also know the temperature on the field at the start of the game was reported as 51ºF/10.6ºC (283.15 K). Plug it in…
86,184.5 Pa / 293.15 K = p2 / 283.15 K
Neat! Look, we’re left with a solvable equation with one variable, p2, which is the pressure of the air inside the ball at game time! Let’s solve this riddle…
Isolate the lone variable:
(86,184.5 Pa / 293.15 K) * 283.15 K = p2
83,244.6 Pa = p2 —> 12.1 psi
83,244.6 Pa is 12.1 psi, so, according to our calculations, the balls could have been under-inflated by 0.4 psi on the field. This makes sense given the very first equation, which shows that a decrease in temperature would force a decrease in pressure, assuming the same volume of air in the football.
Admittedly, I don’t know if I could feel the difference between a ball that has a pressure of 12.5 psi and a ball at 12.1 psi, but by the letter of the law and according to our calculations, the balls could have been under-inflated after having cooled down to the temperature on the field of play.
The question then becomes why this hasn’t been an issue of this magnitude before, especially in games played at colder weather stadiums like Lambeau Field or Soldier Field? No one complained about the ball when the Giants squared off against the Packers at Lambeau in January of 2008, when the game time temperature was -1ºF. Granted, the Giants won, but plugging in the same numbers with a -1ºF/-18.3ºC value for the outdoor temperature, T2, we’d have a ball that was down to 10.9 psi.

A science teacher on Reddit concluded that, given the rainy conditions, temperature and barometric pressure, the pressure inside the footballs could’ve decreased by as much as .7 — which is still far less than the Chris Mortensen’s report that the balls were short by 2 psi.

Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:
Guy-Lussac’s Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it’s volume won’t change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.
The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let’s assume an average ball has a pressure of 13 psi. Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.
The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (13/294.1) = (P2/27. At the game time temperature, the balls would have a pressure of 12.3 psi, below league specifications.
*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it’s unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.
For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi), it’s pressure would drop to 11.8 psi during the game… enough to be considered massively underinflated.

NPR’s All Things Considered had two physicists on — one of which was a professor of the science of sports — to explain the potential effect weather may have played on the pressure inside the ball.
“You just can’t imagine the ball being under-inflated for a significant portion of the game and the referees not noticing” John Eric Goff of Lynchburg College said.
Sure, that doesn’t sound all that scientific, but it’s the greater point that these very smart people who know how nature works aren’t totally convinced foul play was necessarily involved.

[SteelBuckeye]

^^^^ All very scientific and not to discount their work, but, they didn't provide an equation that shows how only 11 of ONE TEAMS balls were effected by the same weather conditions.

[lord_of_six_rings]

sugar -

Listen, it may not mean much to you. However, it meant enough for
marsha to gamble and get, arrange, direct his footballs to be altered.
Its easy on 1-22-15 to say "what difference" but t brady (a serial past cheater) to get his footballs changed / deflated.

Two saturday's ago, marsha thought the colts presented enough of a challenge that he needed that illegal advantage. Be mad at the serial cheater!

So it only matters if marsha can correctly predict when the cheating will help?

[lord_of_six_rings]

oh and buckeye,besides the point somehow weather only affects pats balls (marsha must know how to train their balls) but the kickers balls or full inflated K balls simply were immune to the weather also.

[NJ-STEELER]

Not to mention such shenanigans don't just affect the Pats. They affect every team and the entire playoff schedule. Some people can always be relied upon to say things like you can't prove that you are just making stuff up. Yeah, and they can't prove it didn't happen either and this is not a criminal court where we have to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt. Cheating is a serious issue and must be dealt with harshly. For the record, I felt this way about Tomlin's little "accident" when he stepped onto the field. I would not have complained with the Steelers losing a draft pick. There should be no room in the game for this sh*t.

they did lose a draft pick out of that

[MCHammer]

I don't follow the draft as closely as some people but my memory is that Tomlin's incident was overlooked.

So I googled it:

[url]http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10640609/pittsburgh-steelers-lose-pick-mike-tomlin-incident[/url]

"The [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers"]Pittsburgh Steelers[/URL] won't lose a draft pick for the infamous sideline interference that resulted in a $100,000 fine for coach Mike Tomlin."

[papillon]

We don't know how those balls were under inflated yet? or who to blame?

Why does that matter? The Patriots still played with an advantage, if they knew about the deflation then there should be stiff sanctions, if they didn't know, they should still be punished in some fashion because its their job to make sure the footballs are between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI. Just like we all say the buck stops on the coaches desk when players do illegal things and such, whether the coach knows or not he's ultimately responsible, the Patriots are ultimately responsible for the footballs and its their job to ensure they are not tampered with knowingly or unknowingly.

Pappy

[papillon]

At the end of the day, the Colts only scored 7 points and Blount ran all over them. The inflation of the ball had nothing to do with either of these things.

The score of the game or final outcome isn't relevant to the cheating. Cheating is cheating and needs to be dealt with the fact that it may not affected the outcome is irrelevant, even so, in this case it could have affected the outcome. What if the score at halftime was 7-7 rather than 17-7? Would the Colts have done things differently? Patriots? Of course they would have, the outcome isn't meaningful to whether or not the Patriots cheated.

Pappy

[papillon]

likely the last post I will make on this topic, but some nice analysis done over here:

[URL]http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/science-is-all-like-ooh-ooh-we-can-explain-deflate-gate-with-our-magic/[/URL]

That article addresses the science of Temperature and barometric pressure on PSI, but not the permeability of the bladder and skin of the football. A football made of cloth would lose more air due to temperature and barometric pressure than one made of say rubber and it would be different than one made of leather. You need to know the how the material from which the ball is constructed allows air to escape before you can say that a .4 drop is explainable due to temperatuer and barometric pressure.

Pappy

[Sword]

Why does that matter? The Patriots still played with an advantage, if they knew about the deflation then there should be stiff sanctions, if they didn't know, they should still be punished in some fashion because its their job to make sure the footballs are between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI. Just like we all say the buck stops on the coaches desk when players do illegal things and such, whether the coach knows or not he's ultimately responsible, the Patriots are ultimately responsible for the footballs and its their job to ensure they are not tampered with knowingly or unknowingly.

Pappy

Actual it's the NFL's job 2 hours before the game to make sure they meet the standards....so yes, if they new! heavy sanctions. if the NFL doesn't know, this falls on the NFL. No way will anyone here convince me that this deflation
thing hasn't been going around the NFL for decades for a lot of teams and it wouldn't change the outcome of a game...
It's just now getting attention and because, of the amount of pats haters and success they are the fall team....