Todd Haley deserves some credit

[papillon]

$$$$$$$$$
I've never been able to understand why they don't have more designed rollouts for Ben. They seem to be such an obvious fit for his abilities.

One guess might be that Ben isn't that comfortable in a designed rollout or sliding of the pocket, where as when he breaks contain on his own he can orchestrate the receivers and move safeties easier on his own rather by design. The mechanics of throwing on the run are the same regardless of why you're on the run, but he may be better if he doesn't have to think about the route tree that is in place on a designed rollout and can just play a little sandlot on his own.

Pappy

[rockonsteel]

Is it that Haley is improving or the execution of the plays that is improving? I vote for the later.

Haley absolutely deserves credit for the improvement this offense has displayed recently. The reason those of us that criticized him, did so because we saw the potential this offense has when it's not being handcuffed with playcallling that has at times been way too conservative and cute.

When this offense is aggressive, they are dynamic, provided Ben is not off his game like the Saints game. That game I told everybody at the bar, that that loss was in no way Haley's fault. He called a nice game, Ben was just awful in the first half. The Jets game was on Haley for going into that game with such an incredibly weak gameplan, after the offense had been on fire the previous 8 quarters.

Some of us understand the game enough to know that when a team loses, it's not always the coaches/coordinators' fault just like it's not always the players fault. But there are certainly times when one or the other is largely culpable for an offenses' failures. Haley seems to have maybe turned a corner in recognizing that this offense can achieve great heights, if they're not handcuffed with predictable, crappy playcalling.

Although they have put incredible overall numbers for the season thus far, there's no denying the fact that, this offense has been feast or famine. They scored 10 pts. against the Browns, including garbage time TD in the final minutes of the 4th qtr. They scored 13 pts. against the Jets, including garbage time TD in the final minutes of the 4th qtr. They managed a measly 3 fgs against the Jags. That just shouldn't happen with the talent this offense has. Then they go out and score 50, 41 & 42 against 3 of the better teams in the league. Imagine what these numbers would look like if they didn't have maddeningly frustrating lapses against terrible teams.

Yeah the players seem to be playing better. But funny how when the play calls get better, it correlates to more success on the field. It's called maximizing your talent...putting your players in position to be successful. If the players fail at that point, that's on them, not the coaches(see Ben..Saints game).

So, yes Haley should get credit for a lot of the great things this offense is doing this year. Just like he shares the blame for their horrible inconsistencies.

Rockon

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Like most coaches, he gets too much love from some, and too much hate from others. I agree that he does deserve a lot of credit at times. I think that he is at his best when going up against a D that seems to be more challenging. He seems able to do things to surprise the D at times - like the 94 yard bomb against the Bengals.

On the other hand, I think that he looks bad when going up against a weak D. It is like he is trying too hard to outsmart everyone. Case in point, the game against the Jets. He went into that game with everybody saying that the Jets have weaknesses at DB, so the powerful Steeler downfield passing game will come out and exploit that. It is like he was thinking that since everybody expects us to attack the DBs, we are going to come out running and throwing short - so that the receivers are still close to the Jets' greatest strength, their Dline. Wow, nobody will see that coming.

IMO Haley gameplans very well against good defenses, and usually poorly against the bad.

[feltdizz]

Like most coaches, he gets too much love from some, and too much hate from others. I agree that he does deserve a lot of credit at times. I think that he is at his best when going up against a D that seems to be more challenging. He seems able to do things to surprise the D at times - like the 94 yard bomb against the Bengals.

On the other hand, I think that he looks bad when going up against a weak D. It is like he is trying too hard to outsmart everyone. Case in point, the game against the Jets. He went into that game with everybody saying that the Jets have weaknesses at DB, so the powerful Steeler downfield passing game will come out and exploit that. It is like he was thinking that since everybody expects us to attack the DBs, we are going to come out running and throwing short - so that the receivers are still close to the Jets' greatest strength, their Dline. Wow, nobody will see that coming.

IMO Haley gameplans very well against good defenses, and usually poorly against the bad.

I agree with this...

it feels like anytime we face a D with a good DL we concede out the gate and run a million screens.

[Shawn]

The problem here is very few here know anything about play calling...I mean literally nothing. They don't understand why a screen is called, why a certain run is called, why they went deep, why they are dinking and dunking...they don't understand how an opposing D can dictate some of that by scheme...etc and so on. And the few of us who do understand some of that...know about 1-15% of what you should know depending on how much study and/or actually game experience they have. Playing some high school ball grants you some basic knowledge. Some study grants you some basic knowledge. But, none of us are qualified to really evaluate Haley's performance.

With all of that said, as cash paying customers of a product...we have a right to complain, guess, moan, and call for the heads of coaches. Shoot, it's one of my favorite past times. But, I'm not under any delusion that I really understand enough to evaluate Haley's ability to coach...that is beyond results.

So when guys come here and break down Haley's play calling and call for his head it makes me chuckle a little. I mean come on. You guys have no idea what you all are talking about. I look at one thing...one thing only. Can this O put points on the board? Yeah? Well, then I'm happy you can stay. No? I'm unhappy and I'm calling for your head. But, make no mistake...I know quite a bit about football...and still I am beyond unqualified to truly break down Haley's ability to coach.

[hawaiiansteel]

If you think this is the best offense you've seen in 35 years you haven't been watching.

out of curiosity, what do you think is the best offense the Steelers have had in the last 35 years?

[Mr.wizard]

$$$$$$$$$
I've never been able to understand why they don't have more designed rollouts for Ben. They seem to be such an obvious fit for his abilities.

There are few reasons for that:

1. We have a dynamic receiving corp and Ben is a guy who can get through his progressions and spread the ball around, why limit him to half the field or one or two options.

2. Ben is pretty slow so he will have trouble out running anyone to the sideline, leaving him vulnerable to hits.

3. We all know Ben does not throw the ball away so by limiting the field you increase his chances for a mistake because Ben will try to make a play.

The designed rollouts are not just for avoiding the pass rush, they are also about limiting the amount of thinking your QB has to do by limiting his number of progressions and putting his receivers in his line of sight, mostly used for young inexperienced QB's.

[hawaiiansteel]

NOTEBOOK: MANY STARS ON COUNTER PLAY

Dec 11, 2014
Jim Wexell
Publisher SteelCityInsider.net

PITTSBURGH -- After Le'Veon Bell followed the Steelers' pulling blockers into the Cincinnati Bengals' weak side for his biggest runs of the game last Sunday, he called the play "Georgia."

It doesn't have quite the panache of, say, "counter trey," but it's nearly identical to the play Washington used during its late 1980s-early 1990s heyday.

"It's a power counter where you use a pulling a guard and an additional guy. One guy's kicking out, somebody's wrapping," said offensive coordinator Todd Haley. "We've had it and I think it's something the running back has a real good feel for, and I think the guys blocking it are the key. You've got to make some decisions on the move that are happening real fast that affect your angle of block, and then the back has to read. It's not something you can do with just anybody, but I think we've got some unique guys."

Bell used the play to gain 53 yards on one run, and also to score touchdowns on runs of 13 and 22 yards in the fourth quarter.

To whom would Haley give a helmet decal, so to speak, for the play's strong showing that day?

"I would have to go with David," he said of pulling guard David DeCastro. "The Bengals were tired of seeing him coming around there by the end of the game."

"Give it to Le'Veon," said DeCastro. "He's the guy with the ball. He makes us all look good."

"I give my decal to Beach," left guard Ramon Foster said of left tackle Kelvin Beachum. "If you watch Beach, he was disciplined in his blocking. He ended up pulling the D-end in, which allowed the tight end to go up to the second level. Without him doing that, there might've been penetration right there. I give mine to Beach."

"I would give it to Heath," Beachum said of pulling H-back Heath Miller. "Since somebody already said Dave, who does a great job pulling, I would give it to Heath, who's the next guy around. Really, it's a great combination of all those guys working in tandem on the run and having to make decisions real fast. It's a combination of all those guys and all of us kind of working together at different points in the play that make the play work."

"Can I give two decals?" Miller asked. "I'll say Will Johnson and Matt Spaeth. But Le'Veon always hits it in the right spot, so it's fun. We've been able to do that a few games this year and it's always a good feeling. Against Tennessee we were able to finish and take over in the second half a little bit. We did the same thing against Carolina earlier in the year. I hope we can do it to finish every game the rest of the way."

[URL]http://pit.scout.com/story/1491105-notebook-many-stars-on-counter-play?s=68[/URL]

[hawaiiansteel]

Steelers #1 in the NFL in total offense (YPG)

[URL]http://www.nfl.com/stats/team[/URL]

[RuthlessBurgher]

Steelers #1 in the NFL in total offense (YPG)

[URL]http://www.nfl.com/stats/team[/URL]

That's certainly new. Second in passing yardage, tenth in rushing yardage, first in overall yardage on offense. Nice.

[hawaiiansteel]

Simply put for 8 years this team won games by throwing early, throwing vertical early

by Ed Bouchette

Although we have seen how good a coach Bruce Arians has become we can also see why the Rooney's retired him as he is getting his QB's killed in Arizona which was the fear of Big Ben getting hurt in his system

[URL]http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2014/12/16/Ask-Ed-How-Often-Does-Worilds-Rush-QB/stories/201412160002[/URL]

[Flasteel]

by Ed Bouchette

Although we have seen how good a coach Bruce Arians has become we can also see why the Rooney's retired him as he is getting his QB's killed in Arizona which was the fear of Big Ben getting hurt in his system

[URL]http://sportsblogs.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers-steelers-blog/2014/12/16/Ask-Ed-How-Often-Does-Worilds-Rush-QB/stories/201412160002[/URL]

This was always my main complaint with Arians. He refused to adjust his offense to compensate for a lack of pass protection. No screens, no draws, misdirection, rolling pockets, or 3-step drops. It was always 5 and 7-step drops and getting Ben killed.

[hawaiiansteel]

Gerry Dulac @gerrydulac -

Steelers lead NFL w 142 4th qtr points; Roethlisberger leads league w 1,310 yards, 10 TDs in 4th. Bottom line: Never count em out.

[URL]https://twitter.com/gerrydulac[/URL]

[MisterFuji]

This was always my main complaint with Arians. He refused to adjust his offense to compensate for a lack of pass protection. No screens, no draws, misdirection, rolling pockets, or 3-step drops. It was always 5 and 7-step drops and getting Ben killed.

[MisterFuji]

This was always my main complaint with Arians. He refused to adjust his offense to compensate for a lack of pass protection. No screens, no draws, misdirection, rolling pockets, or 3-step drops. It was always 5 and 7-step drops and getting Ben killed.