Our offense versus our defense

[NorthCoast]

Gotta side with the Captain on this one.

I watched two games yesterday that were telling in regards to where the Steelers are at right now.

BAL-IND: when the Steelers played BAL they couldn't sniff the QB. Indy harassed Flacco all afternoon. The pass rush was relentless and they didn't have to blitz all that often to get to him. In the end, Flacco was tossing and hoping like he is known to do, and the Indy secondary made him pay.

CIN-NE: It must be smoke and mirrors, but how does a NE offense with replacement OL pieces put up 41 against CIN? I focused on some of the OL play and honestly those guys were getting it done. They doubled Atkins quite a bit and the other OLs were able to keep their guys engaged. (it also helped that Brady was releasing the ball in under 1 sec half the time,... Ben needs to take heed).

Bottomline, the Steelers offensive and defensive lines are just not very good. When you compare what other teams have and are doing it is really striking how lacking they are. Until those units are fixed, they will need to rely on Roethlisberger miracles to keep the games close and hope to win at the end.

[NJ-STEELER]

Gotta side with the Captain on this one.

I watched two games yesterday that were telling in regards to where the Steelers are at right now.

BAL-IND: when the Steelers played BAL they couldn't sniff the QB. Indy harassed Flacco all afternoon. The pass rush was relentless and they didn't have to blitz all that often to get to him. In the end, Flacco was tossing and hoping like he is known to do, and the Indy secondary made him pay.

CIN-NE: It must be smoke and mirrors, but how does a NE offense with replacement OL pieces put up 41 against CIN? I focused on some of the OL play and honestly those guys were getting it done. They doubled Atkins quite a bit and the other OLs were able to keep their guys engaged. (it also helped that Brady was releasing the ball in under 1 sec half the time,... Ben needs to take heed).

Bottomline, the Steelers offensive and defensive lines are just not very good. When you compare what other teams have and are doing it is really striking how lacking they are. Until those units are fixed, they will need to rely on Roethlisberger miracles to keep the games close and hope to win at the end.

i wouldnt put too much empasis on last nights game.

pats were coming home to a national TV audience after they got embarrassed. cincy was undefeated and coming off a bye and didnt look ready for it at the start of the game.
the perfect storm type situation for the pats

[Ghost]

Before this season is over, I'm gonna bring you over to the dark side!

Have to admit - sitting in the Steelers bar yesterday watching 3 shotgun formations from 1st and goal on the 4; I actually thought, "curses to DeVille for being right. This play calling blows". But I'm still holding out hope!

[Steelhere10]

A great article on the game... On the Depot
The part that says See pressing works...
Dickey get the memo.!

[Steelhere10]

[url]http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/43489-A-report-from-the-game[/url]

Steelhere, there you go again. "The drive before the half, Dickey played soft". I thought he always plays soft. And what number was he wearing? Wait, I know. "Pushing 80".

Another article that say the same thing.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Have to admit - sitting in the Steelers bar yesterday watching 3 shotgun formations from 1st and goal on the 4; I actually thought, "curses to DeVille for being right. This play calling blows". But I'm still holding out hope!

i got a REAL lol in reading this (even a fist pump)...

Anakin, give in to the power of the dark side...

[Captain Lemming]

the defense has plenty of high draft choices . and more recent ones to boot.

ben and heath were 1st rounders over 10 years ago

the highest drafted players on the team after ben (11) are shazier and timmons followed by jones troy was in that area as well but he's also had many years in the league like ben and heath. even the top defenses (using last year's stats) dont have as many high choices in the draft as we do.

the offense has 1 guy in the skill positions drafted in the top 2 rounds
thats unsettling

Did I say jack squat about draft?
Harrison was a free agent and Brown a 6th rounder.

NJ are you REAALLY Trying to make the case that our defense RIGHT NOW has more talent in its prime than the offense?
Don't tell me about an injured rookie, or second year player who will miss most of the season.

RIGHT NOW how high would you rank our players at their current stage of development. I don't care if Shazier becomes Lack Lambert with 4.4 speed ONE DAY. How good are the players on our defense now? Looking at our division.....how do the players on defense rank? Now do that with our offense.

If you tell me our defense right now has players on par with our offense today you know its a lie. You are smarter than that.

[NJ-STEELER]

ok. I see your point.

but you wonder why we're not a top 5 unit? i assume you mean scoring, because they are currently ranked 4th in yardage.
did you look at the rosters of the teams that have a top 5 offense? denver dallas atlanta green bay, (chicago, NYG right behind them)
they attack you with talent at multiple wide out positions. its not just 1 guy who they force feed screen passes to. they attack down the field with their passing game

we have ben, bell, and brown, all 3 at or near the top of their positions. Butt...
the OL is very average. 2 players on it are above average (DD, MP). the crucial position along the OL is manned by beachum who is average at best. easily ranked in bottom 3rd of the league's left tackles
our TE doesnt stretch the field like you see a lot of these quisi TE/WR hybrids all over the league do. (j thomas, L donnel) heath is good at what he does... short pass range, finds soft spot in the zones and helps with his blocking in the run game. he isnt going to outrun any defender and he goes down as soon as he comes in contact with a defender

Our #2 wideout doesnt pose a great threat to defenses. allowing them to key on AB. starting the season he probably rates in the bottom 5-7 teams #2 WR position and he's also has a very similar style to AB. neither is one of these big physical wideouts (t willams, DT, jordy, dez, julio, keenan allen, marshall, jeffery etc etc) types that seem to be open even when the CBs are right on them. they have natural mismatches with the size and strength

[phillyesq]

Did I say jack squat about draft?
Harrison was a free agent and Brown a 6th rounder.

NJ are you REAALLY Trying to make the case that our defense RIGHT NOW has more talent in its prime than the offense?
Don't tell me about an injured rookie, or second year player who will miss most of the season.

RIGHT NOW how high would you rank our players at their current stage of development. I don't care if Shazier becomes Lack Lambert with 4.4 speed ONE DAY. How good are the players on our defense now? Looking at our division.....how do the players on defense rank? Now do that with our offense.

If you tell me our defense right now has players on par with our offense today you know its a lie. You are smarter than that.

Lemming, you are on the money with your original post. To expand on your point about comparisons:

- I wouldn't take any QB in the division over Ben and it isn't close;
- Same with RB;
- At WR, AJ Green vs. Brown is a legit argument, but Green is an elite talent;
- At C/G, you can make an argument for Alex Mack, Yanda or Zeitler over Pouncey or DD, but again, strong arguments both ways.

Conversely, going through the same exercise on defense, there are a lot of other players in the division better than what the Steelers have.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Interesting exercise...the "All AFC North Team":

I'll go with:

QB: Ben Roethlisberger
RB: Le'Veon Bell, Gio Bernard
WR: A.J. Green, Antonio Brown
TE: Jordan Cameron
T: Joe Thomas, Andrew Whitworth
G: Marshall Yanda, David DeCastro
C: Maurkice Pouncey

DL: Geno Atkins, Haloti Ngata, Phil Taylor, Carlos Dunlap
LB: Vontaze Burfict, Karlos Dansby, Terrell Suggs, Paul Kruger
CB: Joe Haden, Lardarius Webb, Leon Hall
S: Troy Polamalu, Matt Elam, Donte Whitner

Troy's game has regressed for sure, but there aren't exactly many dominating safeties in this division anymore. Reggie Nelson? George Iloka? Darian Stewart?

Cameron Heyward could get some consideration on the DL and Lawrence Timmon at LB, but one defense...that's about it, while I'd have 5 solid Steeler starters on offense (with Heath in contention as a more "complete" TE...just not as dynamic as Cameron now).

[feltdizz]

Interesting exercise...the "All AFC North Team":

I'll go with:

QB: Ben Roethlisberger
RB: Le'Veon Bell, Gio Bernard
WR: A.J. Green, Antonio Brown
TE: Jordan Cameron
T: Joe Thomas, Andrew Whitworth
G: Marshall Yanda, David DeCastro
C: Maurkice Pouncey

DL: Geno Atkins, Haloti Ngata, Phil Taylor, Carlos Dunlap
LB: Vontaze Burfict, Karlos Dansby, Terrell Suggs, Paul Kruger
CB: Joe Haden, Lardarius Webb, Leon Hall
S: Troy Polamalu, Matt Elam, Donte Whitner

Troy's game has regressed for sure, but there aren't exactly many dominating safeties in this division anymore. Reggie Nelson? George Iloka? Darian Stewart?

Cameron Heyward could get some consideration on the DL and Lawrence Timmon at LB, but one defense...that's about it, while I'd have 5 solid Steeler starters on offense (with Heath in contention as a more "complete" TE...just not as dynamic as Cameron now).

umm... Troy is name recognition at this point. I have no idea who the other guys are in our division but there has to be at least one who is playing better than Troy right now.

[RuthlessBurgher]

umm... Troy is name recognition at this point. I have no idea who the other guys are in our division but there has to be at least one who is playing better than Troy right now.

I listed the names of the other starting safeties in that post. You mustn't have noticed, because they are all so forgettable. Troy's on the list by default.

[feltdizz]

I listed the names of the other starting safeties in that post. You mustn't have noticed, because they are all so forgettable. Troy's on the list by default.

I read the names... I just have no idea who they are. LOL...

OK, so I looked them up and both safeties from the Bumgals have better numbers than Troy.
Ioka has 2INT's, 4 pdef, and 22 tackles... thru 4 games
Nelson has 1INT, 2 pdef, 24 tackles and 1.5 sacks...

Troy has 0INT's, 1pdef, 34 tackles and 0 sacks thru 5 games.




It's name recognition only.

[Shawn]

I would disagree that this is the least talented D in the league. I would say it's a young D overall. But, Heyward, Tuitt, Timmons, JJ, Spence, and Shazier all have talent. I even like our Db who replaced Ike.

[Captain Lemming]

I would disagree that this is the least talented D in the league. I would say it's a young D overall. But, Heyward, Tuitt, Timmons, JJ, Spence, and Shazier all have talent. I even like our Db who replaced Ike.

Here is my point Shawn.
We have players with talent WHO HAVE NOT COME CLOSE to reaching their potential.
Aaron Smith BECAME the best DL of this era, but he was not close as a rookie.

I keep saying PLAYERS IN THEIR PRIME.

YOU YOURSELF repeatedly say that Shazier is not near the player he will become.
We cannot judge a coach based on what a talented rookie will become.

We had a HOF QB in 1970, but he was the worst starter in the league at the time.

RIGHT THIS MINUTE.......when we look at an opposing team, when can we say our defensive players are better than them?