Worilds in Run Defense

[Oviedo]

While that is true, but so are the fans perspective. So everything should be taken the same way then.

I agree. PFF is probably more objective than the fans "eye test" that is skewed to supporting their own agendas. I don't think anyone can argue that PFF probably has a better and more systematic and rigorous approach to analysis and it probably a better indicator than what fans bring to this.

[steelz09]

I agree. PFF is probably more objective than the fans "eye test" that is skewed to supporting their own agendas. I don't think anyone can argue that PFF probably has a better and more systematic and rigorous approach to analysis and it probably a better indicator than what fans bring to this.

This is coming from the guy that is the least objective person on this board.

I've worked on a Business Intelligence (BI) & Analytics team that is much larger and difficult than PFF's operations for the past several years and I can tell you that PFF is flawed in a major way when it comes to player grades. I'm a big believer in BI, analytics and statistical analysis but you have to put things into context and sometimes football knowledge and common sense still applies. It's 1 tool... not the end-all, be-all.

Anyone watching the game could tell that Jones played better than Worilds especially in run defense. Obviously, the Browns thought so because they continued to attack his side and saw success doing so. Obviously the Browns didn't consult PFF before calling those successful plays. lol

[Discipline of Steel]

So what are we going to do about it? This cannot persist far into the season.
I would suggest playing Kiesel and Heyward at the ends on running downs until someone else proves they can do it

[steelz09]

So what are we going to do about it? This cannot persist far into the season.
I would suggest playing Kiesel and Heyward at the ends on running downs until someone else proves they can do it

#1 - Find a new NT. McClendon is not a legit starter. McCullers? Dr Archer?

#2 - Get better play from Worilds. He's getting paid HUGE money. Most importantly, he needs to stop trying to guess whether it's a pass or run. He's trying to get a jump on RT for a sack but the Browns knew it, so they started running right at him and he's eliminating himself from the possibility of making the tackle. It's a selfish play on his part and is not team defense.

#3 - Reduce Cam Thomas' playing time with even more rotations. Keisel, Tuitt and even McClendon (if McCullers sees time at NT).

[NorthCoast]

The left side of the defensive line had real issues with gap control and run defense. I was hoping Thomas would be a little more stout than what the Steelers had in the past, but alas Thomas was pushed and shoved pretty much at will by the OL. I'm willing to give him a mulligan for his first game with the Steelers, but if this is a sign of things to come, the Steelers might need to check the waiver wire.

[pittpete]

All these troubles stopping the run started when McClendon became our full time NT?
May have been a good idea to have Casey at camp working with McCullers and company

[phillyesq]

As for PFF, I think the flaw is that they try to quantify, with purely objective numbers, something that is largely subjective. According to their rankings, Willie Gay was one of the best corners in the league last year. While he is fine as a nickel, at some point, the eye test tells you that there are a lot of corners that are better.

[Steelhere10]

Willie gay did play well, they take the time on the field vs play. But some just say he didn't play well because he's Gay .The fans whipping boy.

[RobinCole]

I doubt that having Hampton work with our NTs would help much. What would help more is if our NTs would have huge thighs and butts and a low center of gravity. But would even Hampton in his prime have helped given what Cleveland was doing in the second half.

[Oviedo]

I doubt that having Hampton work with our NTs would help much. What would help more is if our NTs would have huge thighs and butts and a low center of gravity. But would even Hampton in his prime have helped given what Cleveland was doing in the second half.

Hampton wouldn't have been on the field in the second half given what the Browns did. That is the fallacy of how our defense works. It is a stop the run first defense with a dominant Nose Tackle in an era of "pass first and pass often." The opponents can essentially force you to take your Nose Tackle out of the game by going up tempo. Notice that the Browns did not beat us in the first half when they were trying to run the ball and possess it. They beat the defense when they passed and went up tempo and just threw in an occasional run. We will not get beaten by opponents running even though it may look ugly. The pass will beat us and we need to stop that first and foremost.

[RobinCole]

Agreed, which is why I suggested Hampton would not have helped on Sunday. We actually have some evidence to support the theory. In 2002, Hampton was a beast, but we were unable to stop teams that came out passing and kept passing throughout the game. Remember Brady and Gannon in the first two games of the season and then the playoff game against Cleveland which we won , but the Cleveland QB (Holcombe?) piled up huge yardage.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Willie gay did play well, they take the time on the field vs play. But some just say he didn't play well because he's Gay .The fans whipping boy.

Here is one of the flaws in the way PFF grades. When you have Ike Taylor shadowing Calvin Johnson, and have Gay (not to pick on Gay, but using this situation as an example) covering a number three receiver, in the eyes of PFF, they have the same job. So, if Gay breaks up a pass, but on the next play Ike allows a completion, they are marked accordingly, without regard as to who had the tougher duty.

Another question that I have had in the past, is whether grading is scaled to how others perform. I even emailed them once and never received a reply. For example, did the QB have time to throw, and put a perfect pass right where he wanted, or was the pass rush in his face, forcing him to throw off his back foot and float a lame duck in the general direction of the receiver? Does PFF adjust their grading for that, because a corner clearly has an easier job in the latter case. Project that over the course of a season, and a corner can grade out much differently based on situation.

[feltdizz]

who cares what our eyes see since PFF has it all covered..lol.

[phillyesq]

Willie gay did play well, they take the time on the field vs play. But some just say he didn't play well because he's Gay .The fans whipping boy.

He played well last year and yesterday. But Willie Gay is not an elite corner, which is how he graded out with PFF.

[fezziwig]

Here is one of the flaws in the way PFF grades. When you have Ike Taylor shadowing Calvin Johnson, and have Gay (not to pick on Gay, but using this situation as an example) covering a number three receiver, in the eyes of PFF, they have the same job. So, if Gay breaks up a pass, but on the next play Ike allows a completion, they are marked accordingly, without regard as to who had the tougher duty.

Another question that I have had in the past, is whether grading is scaled to how others perform. I even emailed them once and never received a reply. For example, did the QB have time to throw, and put a perfect pass right where he wanted, or was the pass rush in his face, forcing him to throw off his back foot and float a lame duck in the general direction of the receiver? Does PFF adjust their grading for that, because a corner clearly has an easier job in the latter case. Project that over the course of a season, and a corner can grade out much differently based on situation.

Excellent points you have made.