What makes LeBoo's D so darn complicated?

[Shawn]

I think the jury is out on Jones. Any talk beyond that is merely talk. The fact is none of us know. I have concerns but I am also optimistic in the sense that the Steelers are very good at grading out first round draft picks. Who was the last first round flop?

[RuthlessBurgher]

I think the jury is out on Jones. Any talk beyond that is merely talk. The fact is none of us know. I have concerns but I am also optimistic in the sense that the Steelers are very good at grading out first round draft picks. Who was the last first round flop?

Ziggy and Mendenhall certainly didn't work out here, but they did start here for a few years each, so they weren't exactly total flops.

We probably should have gotten more out of the Kendall Simmons pick, but injuries and illness did him in. When healthy, he was a solid enough starter.

Troy Edwards is remember as a bust, but he did have a solid rookie season, but then not much at all after that.

The last complete and total busts we drafted in the first were Jamain Stephens in 1996 and Huey Richardson in 1991.

[sick beats]

Ziggy and Mendenhall certainly didn't work out here, but they did start here for a few years each, so they weren't exactly total flops.

We probably should have gotten more out of the Kendall Simmons pick, but injuries and illness did him in. When healthy, he was a solid enough starter.

Troy Edwards is remember as a bust, but he did have a solid rookie season, but then not much at all after that.

The last complete and total busts we drafted in the first were Jamain Stephens in 1996 and Huey Richardson in 1991.

I thought Simmons sucked. That was a Cowher FAIL. They kept playing him because they didn't want to admit he was a FAIL.

[steelz09]

Not sure who has labeled Jones a "bust" but taking a "show me" attitude is I think acceptable as part of the discourse we have here. The core of the debate among Jones' fans and the more skeptical of us is simply wheteher last season he did enough "show me" or not.

I don't question Jones' determination and high motor on every play but I do question his strength, explosiveness and speed which, in my admitted uninformed expertise, are pretty essential to being an elite pass rusher in this league. And let's be honest, that is why he was drafted and essentially given the starting job last year. he wasn't draft to be a middle of road pass rusher so we shouldn't all of a sudden make that the mark he needs to achieve.

Sounds like you want a workout warrior... not a football player.

Funny thing is... you were content with Timmons' 13 total tackles as a rookie. You clearly dislike the player, not the production. It doesn't get any more obvious.... except for your dislike towards Lebeau and your obsession with switching to a 4-3.

[sick beats]

Sounds like you want a workout warrior... not a football player.

Funny thing is... you were content with Timmons' 13 total tackles as a rookie. You clearly dislike the player, not the production. It doesn't get any more obvious.... except for your dislike towards Lebeau and your obsession with switching to a 4-3.

I only want a productive OLB, and it appears he needs more strength, hell, HE said he needs to get stronger. Lift free weights. Knock off the damn machines. FREE WEIGHTS.

[squidkid]

It is amazing how every post is steeped in butthurt pettiness and seasoned with bitterness...

its amazing how much you mentioned 'butthurt'
wonder why?

[Oviedo]

Sounds like you want a workout warrior... not a football player.

Funny thing is... you were content with Timmons' 13 total tackles as a rookie. You clearly dislike the player, not the production. It doesn't get any more obvious.... except for your dislike towards Lebeau and your obsession with switching to a 4-3.

Sure, you got it all figured out. I have an irrational hatred of a 80 year old man I never met. That's what it is all about. Oh, and Jones should have been rookie of the year last year. Nothing to worry about after four years of continual decreasing sacks and INTs. Timmons showed speed and explosiveness even as he learned the system. He was the fastest LB on the field and he exploded into his tackles and that was obvious to those who wanted to see it. He could cover TEs and RBs better than anyone else we had even the veterans. Jones doesn't have that athletic ability so not sure what he is going to call upon.

The rest of the ostriches are calling. Time to bury the ol' head in the sand.

[Slapstick]

its amazing how much you mentioned 'butthurt'
wonder why?

Yeah, all one time I mentioned it...

Clearly I'm the obsessed one here...

[skyhawk]

Wow, this board is getting pretty petty and difficult for me to follow. Everyone wanting to be right

IMO, the "difficulty" of this defense has been the players. It's been hard for anyone new to crack the starting 11 since this D had been so good between 2005-2010. I think the D was #1 at least 4-6 seasons. Look no further than All-pros who were the best at their respective positions at some point: Porter, Farrior, Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu, Taylor, Hampton, Smith. Maybe Timmons now. Pretty DIFFICULT to find players to play at that level. We have become spoiled.

THAT's why. Hard to be good enough to replace those guys. I doubt if the Steelers ever have a run of defensive players like that anytime soon (and only in the 70's prior).

[Captain Lemming]

Wow, this board is getting pretty petty and difficult for me to follow. Everyone wanting to be right

IMO, the "difficulty" of this defense has been the players. It's been hard for anyone new to crack the starting 11 since this D had been so good between 2005-2010. I think the D was #1 at least 4-6 seasons. Look no further than All-pros who were the best at their respective positions at some point: Porter, Farrior, Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu, Taylor, Hampton, Smith. Maybe Timmons now. Pretty DIFFICULT to find players to play at that level. We have become spoiled.

THAT's why. Hard to be good enough to replace those guys. I doubt if the Steelers ever have a run of defensive players like that anytime soon (and only in the 70's prior).

Stop with the unassailable logic. You are spoiling all the fun in just blaming Leboo.

[Oviedo]

Stop with the unassailable logic. You are spoiling all the fun in just blaming Leboo.

...as opposed to giving Leboo a pass for consistently decreasing levels of performance. Any Def Coord can look good with a star filled roster but Leboo is suppose to be a "genius." Can't the really great ones do more with less?

[Slapstick]

...as opposed to giving Leboo a pass for consistently decreasing levels of performance. Any Def Coord can look good with a star filled roster but Leboo is suppose to be a "genius." Can't the really great ones do more with less?

He did do more with less...for any other DC, last year was a bottom 3 defense...

[Shawn]

...as opposed to giving Leboo a pass for consistently decreasing levels of performance. Any Def Coord can look good with a star filled roster but Leboo is suppose to be a "genius." Can't the really great ones do more with less?

I have been with you on LeBeau for awhile now. But, to be honest with you I have come around a bit. The Steelers D has been devoid of talent for awhile now. Hard to make lemonade out of dog ish.

[Oviedo]

I have been with you on LeBeau for awhile now. But, to be honest with you I have come around a bit. The Steelers D has been devoid of talent for awhile now. Hard to make lemonade out of dog ish.

But how long to you wish and hope the right talent comes together versus holding people accountable for the development of players and/or adjusting the system to what you have versus what you wish you had?

[BURGH86STEEL]

The difference is that during the "3 years" it took Seattle's defense the young players were playing and gaining experience "when the real bullets were flying." IMO that is a huge factor why they became so good. Same thing with San Francisco. They weren't dominant on Day 1 but they were on field.

That is where LeBeau fails IMO. He seems to be looking for the sure thing which is why we see our playing getting their significant reps or starting in the final year or two of their rookie contract. That make evaluation of whether to extend and keep much harder.

Hopefully, the excuses are over and the young guys are on the field. That is where they will get better not just as tackling dummies in practice.

The Steelers were having consistent success long before the new flavor of the month teams came a long. I am not sure how any Steelers fan can or should admire another team? No team can stay on top forever. I suppose fans are just spoiled? I will point out to you that very few teams have performed as consistently well as the Steelers.

The Steelers are in a transitional phase on the defense. It's logical to assume that the Steelers would have some drop off in performance after the decline in play and loss of good/great players. The same thing happened to the Steelers Oline near the end of the Cowher era. It generally takes time to rebuild a unit depending on the circumstances and factors.

What coaches and organizations are not looking for sure things? After all, sure things generally cost organizations a lot of money to retain. If anything, players' inconsistency makes it more difficult for an organization to know if a particular player should be resigned & at what price. IMO, the Steelers still don't know what they have in Jason Worilds. Injuries and inconsistent play have made it difficult for the organization to gauge Worilds' true value.

Lebeau hasn't failed. He's coached some of the best defensive units in the league since he returned to the Steelers. Another thing, the Steelers get young defensive players on the field. How often those players see playing time depends on how well they combine the mental aspect of the game with their performance on the field. The players must prove to the coaches that they are mentally prepared to perform at a high level on game day. A large majority of players are not mentally ready for the complexity and speed of pro game coming out of college. It generally takes a season or two for players to adapt.