What makes LeBoo's D so darn complicated?

[Oviedo]

In that title game Indy was held without a touchdown UNTIL the one score you mentioned. Had we lost while scoring a measly 13 points you blame the defense? Yeah we had a touchdown to regain the lead. That make NOD some kind of hero? I say IT WAS ABOUT TIME the offense did its job. We win 20-16, I say the defense had the better game.

We lose 7-0 on a 4th quarter score you blame DL too?

Hey, since 79 how many Super Bowls has this team had without DL? ZERO.
During the 12 seasons Lebeau was our DC NO TEAM IN THIS LEAGUE can match the success of the Steelers.

Since you believe that the offense not scoring enough is the problem, I'm curious what you feel the requisite number of points that a offense has to score to protect the defense from itself?

[MirrorMan]

They want it both ways. They want 30 points a game on offense and they want to run the ball.

In THIS NFL, unless you have a defense that forces a ton of turnovers? You aren't scoring a ton of points unless you air it out.

There simply isn't enough time.

[sick beats]

TEAM Success Team success? I'll giver you team success.
THIRTY FIVE SEASONS since the last Noll SB victory.

TWENTY THREE seasons without Lebeau as DC........ZERO superbowl appearances.

ONLY WITH LEBEAU have we sniffed the superbowl.

Lebeau had different head coaches, different QBs, different GMs, entirely different rosters, heck different Rooneys as team president.

Four superbowls in 12 years as our DC.

One in every THREE seasons with Lebeau as DC ended in a superbowl. 23 other season ZIP.

Cowher has DL as DC for only 5 seasons. During those 5 seasons came Cowhers best three seasons as coach. Two superbowl appearances and another season with the best record (15-1) in Steeler history.

Tomlin INHERITED THAT GUY as his DC and had his own SB win in year 2.

You say you wanna win? Dont let irrational Lebeau hatred blind you from the facts.
TWENTY THREE seasons w/o Lebeau as DC ZERO superbowl appearances.

12 with him NOT ONLY resulted in HALF of those being number one in scoring or yards.

Wins baby, wins.

Four superbowls AND another season with the best record in team history.

The five most successful post 70s Steelers seasons featured DL as DC.

If those stats mean nothing how come a DICK LEBEAU led defense been the ONE CONSTANT in EVERY LAST ONE of the MOST SUCCESSFUL SEASONS in the last 35 years?

Chiiter chatter, pitter patter. That's great and all, but LeBoo is close to 80 years old. There is a reason people retire at 65. Should he still be our DC at 100, since of his history and all? Should the Rolling Stones still be doing gigs at 70? It's inappropriate.

[Slapstick]

So, now you're going to tell another person, be it Dick LeBeau or Mick Jagger, that they must retire and are not permitted to work anymore?

Communist.

[K Train]

I dont get the hate for lebeau at all. At times i have accused him of being too stuck in his ways, but its not like he NEVER adjusts anything.

The defense is very complicated for a few reasons.

Not all DBs are good tacklers out of college. People like to bitch about the "10 yard cushion" but everyone also like to bitch about guys getting burnt deep when they bump and run. We generally have the best tackling DBs in the league (aside from troy who is a poor tackler) but "tackling the catch" is an effective strategy, ask the seahawks. This "10 yard cushion" which is usually more like 4-7 yards (but you cant tell that to a whiny steelers fan) is NOT because they want to get eaten up underneath, it is because they run a lot of complicated assignments and its a great way to disguise that. The problem in the last few years has been a shotty pass rush which allows a scheme like that to get beat....not because all quick throws can beat it like some like to think, just because the QB has all day whether the rusher is coming after him or dropping into coverage, making reads has not been a problem. When the pass rush is generating pressure, and getting sacks more than the paltry low 30s theyve been getting and get that number into the 50s theres a reaosn why its one of the most stifling defense in the league. When it comes to running a genius and unique scheme Lebeau, Greg Williams, and Rex Ryan are in a class of their own...not to say there arent other good d coodinators, but when these guys have the players they run a defense that cant be stopped.

When it comes to playing DB is about being confortable, understanding the assignment, and being able to tackle MUCH more than it is about being a shadow lock down coverage man. (also, Ryan Clark was putrid last year and he has had some brilliant seasons for the player he is, but he left the CBs out to dry a ton last season but everyone would just rather blame Ike, who was noticably frustrated with clarks blown assignments)

The OLBs have been disappointing, not from a lack of talent though, it is from playing on a team that has tradionally been deemed a "plug and play" system for an OLB...which isnt the case, you cant just be any undersized collegiate DE and play OLB for the steelers like it used to seem. Weve been truly lucky to have some premier talents like Porter and Harrison just step right in. But the dline has underwhelmed even more than the OLBs and it has made the OLBs look absolutely terrible. The problem with playing the 5 technique in lebeaus defense is it is very physically demanding. Stacking and shedidng blocks all day long is no easy task, and guys like hood would always rather act like they were a gigantic OLB and end up being washed out of the play trying to bend the corner. A lot of guys that are 6-5 300 pounds (what lebeau looks for in a DE) can have a hard time with leverage early on and having a hard time with that makes for a long dya for the defense since it is such a cog in the run game and pass defense. NT isnt quite the same technical position, its much easier to play if you are strong and play low enough (hampton certainly was both of those things)

Its also not that rookies can play in the defense...but John Mitchell hates raw players on his dline for the reasons i stated above. And for the last DECADE there hasnt really been an opening on the defense...even if you hated woodley, or kiesel, or clark, or foote, they were still the starters. The infused youth is going to be great for this team. Got some bit time speed in shazier and mitchell, a big hitter with mitchell, an immovable obect with Thomas and a player that could team up with heyward to make the best 34 DE combo in the league and rival Mo Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson up in NYJ

[Oviedo]

I dont get the hate for lebeau at all. At times i have accused him of being too stuck in his ways, but its not like he NEVER adjusts anything.

The defense is very complicated for a few reasons.

Not all DBs are good tacklers out of college. People like to bitch about the "10 yard cushion" but everyone also like to bitch about guys getting burnt deep when they bump and run. We generally have the best tackling DBs in the league (aside from troy who is a poor tackler) but "tackling the catch" is an effective strategy, ask the seahawks. This "10 yard cushion" which is usually more like 4-7 yards (but you cant tell that to a whiny steelers fan) is NOT because they want to get eaten up underneath, it is because they run a lot of complicated assignments and its a great way to disguise that. The problem in the last few years has been a shotty pass rush which allows a scheme like that to get beat....not because all quick throws can beat it like some like to think, just because the QB has all day whether the rusher is coming after him or dropping into coverage, making reads has not been a problem. When the pass rush is generating pressure, and getting sacks more than the paltry low 30s theyve been getting and get that number into the 50s theres a reaosn why its one of the most stifling defense in the league. When it comes to running a genius and unique scheme Lebeau, Greg Williams, and Rex Ryan are in a class of their own...not to say there arent other good d coodinators, but when these guys have the players they run a defense that cant be stopped.

When it comes to playing DB is about being confortable, understanding the assignment, and being able to tackle MUCH more than it is about being a shadow lock down coverage man. (also, Ryan Clark was putrid last year and he has had some brilliant seasons for the player he is, but he left the CBs out to dry a ton last season but everyone would just rather blame Ike, who was noticably frustrated with clarks blown assignments)

The OLBs have been disappointing, not from a lack of talent though, it is from playing on a team that has tradionally been deemed a "plug and play" system for an OLB...which isnt the case, you cant just be any undersized collegiate DE and play OLB for the steelers like it used to seem. Weve been truly lucky to have some premier talents like Porter and Harrison just step right in. But the dline has underwhelmed even more than the OLBs and it has made the OLBs look absolutely terrible. The problem with playing the 5 technique in lebeaus defense is it is very physically demanding. Stacking and shedidng blocks all day long is no easy task, and guys like hood would always rather act like they were a gigantic OLB and end up being washed out of the play trying to bend the corner. A lot of guys that are 6-5 300 pounds (what lebeau looks for in a DE) can have a hard time with leverage early on and having a hard time with that makes for a long dya for the defense since it is such a cog in the run game and pass defense. NT isnt quite the same technical position, its much easier to play if you are strong and play low enough (hampton certainly was both of those things)

Its also not that rookies can play in the defense...but John Mitchell hates raw players on his dline for the reasons i stated above. And for the last DECADE there hasnt really been an opening on the defense...even if you hated woodley, or kiesel, or clark, or foote, they were still the starters. The infused youth is going to be great for this team. Got some bit time speed in shazier and mitchell, a big hitter with mitchell, an immovable obect with Thomas and a player that could team up with heyward to make the best 34 DE combo in the league and rival Mo Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson up in NYJ

It not "hate," but a willingness to question based on 4 years of declining performance in an area his defense was supposedly designed to excell in. It is only about the man in the fact that many don't see changes other than hoping for the next great group of players. Sorry, but Troy playing a quasi-LB position is not a change. He has done that at times most of his career.

[MirrorMan]

It not "hate," but a willingness to question based on 4 years of declining performance in an area his defense was supposedly designed to excell in. It is only about the man in the fact that many don't see changes other than hoping for the next great group of players. Sorry, but Troy playing a quasi-LB position is not a change. He has done that at times most of his career.

It's not 4 years, LeBeau's career, is an overrated farce.

[K Train]

Troy played LB because vince williams sucks

The worst players last season were Ryan Clark and Vince Williams. Both of whom have been replaced. Mitchell give them a center field player, shazier (theorectically) improves the run defense, pass defense, and pass rush

Ike Taylor had a bad year, but i do blame clark for many of ikes "bad games"..ike is a big bounce back candidate.

4 years of declining defense is 4 years of declining players that were cogs in the mid 2000s.

Also in those 4 years

2010: #1 run d, #2 overall
2011: #1 pass d, #1 overall
2012: #1 total d, #1 pass d, #2 run d
2013: yuck

Lets not exaggerate the team has been far from perfect the last few years, theyve struggled in all 3 phases of the game at times, and they did get pretty old on the defensive side....but i assure you the problem is not lebeau forgetting how to coach defense

[RuthlessBurgher]

Chiiter chatter, pitter patter. That's great and all, but LeBoo is close to 80 years old. There is a reason people retire at 65. Should he still be our DC at 100, since of his history and all? Should the Rolling Stones still be doing gigs at 70? It's inappropriate.

I'll be looking forward to the Stones' next album, entitled, "Pop Dat Thang"

[hawaiiansteel]

I'll be looking forward to the Stones' next album, entitled, "Pop Dat Thang"

featuring their new hit song: "Pop Dat Hamstring"...

[Shawn]

I'll be looking forward to the Stones' next album, entitled, "Pop Dat Thang"

I would take a 100 year old Rolling Stones over Cold Play.

[RuthlessBurgher]

featuring their new hit song: "Pop Dat Hamstring"...

Old-timer rock-and-roll at its finest...

"Hey, hey, you, kids, get offa my lawn"

[sick beats]

This "10 yard cushion" which is usually more like 4-7 yards (but you cant tell that to a whiny steelers fan)

LeBoo has gone on record saying, "the first, second and third thing on defense is 'don't give up the big play, don't give up the big play and don't give up the big play.'"

He is overly paranoid about that, which leads to CBs giving up 8 yard cushions on 3rd and 4 plays. I don't care how you try to slant it, that is just overly paranoid on giving up big plays to a fault. And isn't it ironic that when we are facing a 3rd and 25 that we all know this D will give up a first down in third and forever. It's quite interesting that LeBoo fears giving up the big play like AIDs but his Ds give up 3rd and forevers all the time.

[dizzfelt]

It not "hate," but a willingness to question based on 4 years of declining performance in an area his defense was supposedly designed to excell in. It is only about the man in the fact that many don't see changes other than hoping for the next great group of players. Sorry, but Troy playing a quasi-LB position is not a change. He has done that at times most of his career.

exactly... I don't think anyone hates DL, we just hate seeing our D get burned by Tebow and Tannehill

[K Train]

lol ok....play press man every play with Ryan Clark and Troy Polamalu playing safety...GREAT idea, that will work fantastic....a head hunting, slow FS and a run stuffing high risk/high impact freelancing torpedo is NOT the recipe for playing cover 1 or any version of press man.

There will be more single high safety coverage with Mitchell imo, but your bitching and moaning is clearly just not understanding 1) how the scheme works and 2) the kinf of safety play you need to not give any cushion