It's way too early to worry about Jarvis Jones

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  • Oviedo
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 23824

    #16
    Originally posted by feltdizz
    not sure about that... I think the players of today are just as smart and talented as those other players. The problem is we no longer have 3 to 4 years to let these guys learn the D before becoming full time starters.

    It's much easier to slowly put 1 or 2 guys into our D while it's top 5. However, when you have to put 4 to 6 guys into the rotation we see how damaging the complexity is on our younger players.

    People are still referencing Kendrall Bell when asked about a rookie playing well in our D and that wasn't under DL.
    Exactly. We need more sooner and if that means simplfying it has to be done.
    "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

    Comment

    • papillon
      Legend
      • Mar 2008
      • 11340

      #17
      Originally posted by feltdizz
      not sure about that... I think the players of today are just as smart and talented as those other players. The problem is we no longer have 3 to 4 years to let these guys learn the D before becoming full time starters.

      It's much easier to slowly put 1 or 2 guys into our D while it's top 5. However, when you have to put 4 to 6 guys into the rotation we see how damaging the complexity is on our younger players.

      People are still referencing Kendrall Bell when asked about a rookie playing well in our D and that wasn't under DL.
      Not all good players have taken 3-4 years, Aaron Smith was productive in his 2nd year, Hampton was productive in his 2nd season, Polamalu was productive in his 2nd season, Taylor was productive in his 3rd season, Timmons didn't start many games, but was productive in his 2nd season, Farrior was immediately productive (I realize he was with the Jets, but it wasn't Lebeau's "complex" defense there, he learned Lebeau's defense in one training camp), Joey Porter was productive in his 2nd season, Greg Lloyd - 2nd season, Carnell Lake immediate impact, Hoke started 10 games as a rookie and was a great backup to Hampton to the point that some fans believed we could allow Hampton to walk if necessary, there is success in the Steeler defense prior to 3rd or 4th seasons, but for some reason the younger players now aren't replacing the veterans as seamlessly as those in the past.

      Pappy
      sigpic

      The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

      1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
      3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
      3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
      4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
      5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
      7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

      "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

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      • Slapstick
        Rookie
        • May 2008
        • 0

        #18
        Originally posted by Oviedo
        Because if you don't have the same talent, you make changes to put the talent you have in the position to be successful. You don't just keep forcing it hoping all the stars align and you get just the right player combinations gain. That method is sure to result in long term mediocrity and is very high risk.

        While everyone wants to catgorize me as a LeBeau hater, the reality was for many years I loved what we did on defense because we had the players to make it work and work well. My issue is that it was clear to me three years ago we had a unique grouping of players and as we lost those players talent replacement was going to be a challenge because a whole lot of things just happened to go right for us; especially the conversion of players from college DE to OLB and college DT to DE. I always thought it was high risk to think that could continue especially as more and more teams copied what we were doing and started mining the same talent pool for the same type of players.

        Add in the supposed complexity that the system has that requires several years to master and that makes it even more risky.
        LeBeau did make changes....and it paid off in the second half of last season...
        Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

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        • Slapstick
          Rookie
          • May 2008
          • 0

          #19
          Originally posted by papillon
          Not all good players have taken 3-4 years, Aaron Smith was productive in his 2nd year, Hampton was productive in his 2nd season, Polamalu was productive in his 2nd season, Taylor was productive in his 3rd season, Timmons didn't start many games, but was productive in his 2nd season, Farrior was immediately productive (I realize he was with the Jets, but it wasn't Lebeau's "complex" defense there, he learned Lebeau's defense in one training camp), Joey Porter was productive in his 2nd season, Greg Lloyd - 2nd season, Carnell Lake immediate impact, Hoke started 10 games as a rookie and was a great backup to Hampton to the point that some fans believed we could allow Hampton to walk if necessary, there is success in the Steeler defense prior to 3rd or 4th seasons, but for some reason the younger players now aren't replacing the veterans as seamlessly as those in the past.

          Pappy
          Hokie didn't start until year 4...
          Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

          Comment

          • Oviedo
            Legend
            • May 2008
            • 23824

            #20
            Originally posted by Slapstick
            LeBeau did make changes....and it paid off in the second half of last season...
            The only change he made was Troy playing a quasi-LB position which directly led to the team giving up more long plays than any other team in the league last year.

            If that is his success story for innovation, the time for change is not with players.
            "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

            Comment

            • Slapstick
              Rookie
              • May 2008
              • 0

              #21
              Originally posted by Oviedo
              The only change he made was Troy playing a quasi-LB position which directly led to the team giving up more long plays than any other team in the league last year.

              If that is his success story for innovation, the time for change is not with players.
              That is incorrect...putting Troy at LB isn't a schematic change...it's a personnel change...

              Schematically, LeBeau made two significant changes to the scheme:

              1) He adjusted the scheme to allow DEs to get upfield and rush the passer more...this led to Heyward's emergence...

              2) He stopped Ike from following the opponent's best receiver...this solidified the defensive secondary in the second half of the year ("fewer moving parts" as LeBeau put it)...this led to Cortez having a pick 6 along with 11 PDs...
              Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

              Comment

              • feltdizz
                Legend
                • May 2008
                • 27564

                #22
                Originally posted by papillon
                Not all good players have taken 3-4 years, Aaron Smith was productive in his 2nd year, Hampton was productive in his 2nd season, Polamalu was productive in his 2nd season, Taylor was productive in his 3rd season, Timmons didn't start many games, but was productive in his 2nd season, Farrior was immediately productive (I realize he was with the Jets, but it wasn't Lebeau's "complex" defense there, he learned Lebeau's defense in one training camp), Joey Porter was productive in his 2nd season, Greg Lloyd - 2nd season, Carnell Lake immediate impact, Hoke started 10 games as a rookie and was a great backup to Hampton to the point that some fans believed we could allow Hampton to walk if necessary, there is success in the Steeler defense prior to 3rd or 4th seasons, but for some reason the younger players now aren't replacing the veterans as seamlessly as those in the past.

                Pappy
                All true... but we didn't have to depend on all these guys to gel in a 3 year window after shedding a ton of talent.
                Steelers 27
                Rats 16

                Comment

                • feltdizz
                  Legend
                  • May 2008
                  • 27564

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Slapstick
                  That is incorrect...putting Troy at LB isn't a schematic change...it's a personnel change...

                  Schematically, LeBeau made two significant changes to the scheme:

                  1) He adjusted the scheme to allow DEs to get upfield and rush the passer more...this led to Heyward's emergence...

                  2) He stopped Ike from following the opponent's best receiver...this solidified the defensive secondary in the second half of the year ("fewer moving parts" as LeBeau put it)...this led to Cortez having a pick 6 along with 11 PDs...
                  I think a horrible pass by the QB led to that pick 6.

                  The D was HORRIBLE last year...

                  we broke records last year, records we never wanted to break.
                  Steelers 27
                  Rats 16

                  Comment

                  • Slapstick
                    Rookie
                    • May 2008
                    • 0

                    #24
                    Originally posted by feltdizz
                    I think a horrible pass by the QB led to that pick 6.

                    The D was HORRIBLE last year...

                    we broke records last year, records we never wanted to break.
                    The first half of the year, I agree...

                    The second half, the D played a lot better...
                    Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

                    Comment

                    • Captain Lemming
                      Legend
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 16063

                      #25
                      Originally posted by feltdizz
                      I think a horrible pass by the QB led to that pick 6.

                      The D was HORRIBLE last year...

                      we broke records last year, records we never wanted to break.
                      If you mean the streak where EVERY SINGLE STEELER DEFENSE EVER COACHED BY DL was a top 10 defense (a MAJORITY top 3), yes I agree I never wanted that record to end.
                      sigpic



                      In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                      TCFCLTC-
                      The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

                      Comment

                      • steeler_fan_in_t.o.
                        Legend
                        • May 2008
                        • 10287

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Discipline of Steel
                        I haven't heard anything great about Shazier coming out of OTAs. Looks like another wasted draft pick....
                        You mean Bustzier?
                        http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...to_Mike/to.jpg

                        Comment

                        • feltdizz
                          Legend
                          • May 2008
                          • 27564

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Captain Lemming
                          If you mean the streak where EVERY SINGLE STEELER DEFENSE EVER COACHED BY DL was a top 10 defense (a MAJORITY top 3), yes I agree I never wanted that record to end.
                          I wish.. unfortunately it was more records than that one
                          Steelers 27
                          Rats 16

                          Comment

                          • hawaiiansteel
                            Legend
                            • May 2008
                            • 35651

                            #28
                            No Time For Sophomore Slumps In Pittsburgh

                            By Maurice Moton Jun 05, 2014



                            LB Jarvis Jones will be one of at least three second-year Steelers who will be instrumental in helping Pittsburgh end its recent run with mediocrity.

                            The transformation of the Pittsburgh Steelers is upon us. For the coaching staff and Steeler Nation, there isn’t a minute to waste after back-to -back 8-8 seasons. This year’s top draft picks will be expected to make an immediate impact on the field. In reality, rookie mistakes will be met with a level of patience in consideration for player potential and development. This year’s sophomores don’t have the same principle to rely on when taking the field. On-the-field miscues, bumps and bruises have already been dismissed as a welcome to the NFL and now it’s time to produce.

                            LB Jarvis Jones – the team’s first-round pick in 2013 – had a rough rookie year on the field, starting eight games and recording one sack. Jones was expected to add a level of vigor and intensity to an aging defense but his inexperience was evident. He struggled to learn the defensive scheme and was benched at midseason by coach Mike Tomlin.

                            This year, Jones will have a renowned former Steeler showing him the ropes. Assistant coach Joey Porter has become a mentor to the second-year linebacker by offering his knowledge and passion for the game. Porter, though more of an outspoken character, acknowledges his newfound protégé is capable of bringing “the nasty” back to the Steel Curtain.

                            Not only is Jones expected make great strides on the field, but he’s also expected to become the “Barn Boss” – a role Porter once held within the Steelers’ locker room. Attitude can’t be taught, but if it’s part of Jones’ character, it would be Porter to bring it out of him.

                            RB Le’Veon Bell was the most productive of last year’s draft picks and will be the undisputed leader of the backfield this upcoming season. If not for a preseason foot injury, he could have rushed for more than 1,000 yards in his rookie season. Nonetheless, in 13 games last season, Bell showed he’s ready to be an impact player.

                            Both RBs Johnathan Dwyer and Isaac Redman have left Pittsburgh; Bell will be running with the most experience within the crop of running backs on the depth chart. The Steelers are known for predicating their offense on a strong rushing attack and Bell’s ability to catch the ball adds an extra dimension to it. He’s tough between the tackles and can also flex out to catch in open space. Rookie RB Dri Archer can learn something from Bell’s 45 receptions for 399 yards, assuming he’s featured out of the backfield as a receiver.

                            LeGarrette Blount’s arrival in Pittsburgh will keep Bell refreshed and hopefully healthy. Blount is classified as the prototypical “bruiser” type of rusher in comparison to his starting counterpart. He’ll likely take on some short-yardage carries and goal-line carries when Bell needs a breather. Despite the portioning of carries, expect Bell to amass 1,000 rushing yards this season with the bulk of the workload. The production at running back will be crucial with the wide receiver position in transition.

                            The player with the shortest rope as a potential sophomore starter will be Markus Wheaton. Fellow WR Antonio Brown will see a lot more double coverage and QB Ben Roethlisberger needs another dependable target. TE Heath Miller is healthy and has been consistent but only reached the end zone once last year. The Steelers really struggled to score points despite Roethlisberger throwing for 28 TDs (second-highest total in his career).

                            Roethlisberger enters this season with only one familiar weapon at wideout. Wheaton is expected to start opposite Brown and his chemistry with Roethlisberger remains to be seen. A broken finger hindered Wheaton’s effectiveness on the field last season and it remained a concern for a while after he failed to rehab it properly. According to Wheaton, the two surgeries on his pinky finger are now behind him and he’s ready to meet expectations.

                            Pay close attention to Wheaton’s development during training camp and the preseason. If he struggles, more experienced players Lance Moore and Darrius Heyward–Bey may see more targets out of the slot. Wheaton’s targets could also be diminished if rookie WR Martavis Bryant becomes an effective goal-line threat as a 6-5 jump-ball receiver.

                            All three of these sophomore players will experience the pressure of growing up quickly in a traditionally methodical player developmental environment that once existed in Pittsburgh. The urgency within the players has been palpable during the minicamp. It’s clear the organization’s expectations on their youth have significantly been increased in a shorter time-span with the draft being held in May this year.

                            GM Kevin Colbert avoids using the term rebuilding in favor of advocating a transformation. His semantics have further put pressure on his younger players to produce rather than learn the game from the veterans. To his defense, this is common across the league. Players of high potential are expected to play through their mistakes and absorb the game from being on the field rather than on the sideline.

                            [URL]http://www.football.com/en-us/no-time-for-sophomore-slumps-in-pittsburgh/[/URL]

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                            • hawaiiansteel
                              Legend
                              • May 2008
                              • 35651

                              #29
                              Steelers linebacker Jones vows to improve in 2nd NFL season

                              By Alan Robinson
                              Published: Thursday, June 5, 2014

                              Steelers outside linebacker Jarvis Jones knows a statistics-thin rookie season raised doubts about how good — or how disappointing — an NFL pass rusher he will be.

                              The doubters aren't going away, at least for now.

                              “He can hunt — he can find that ball and hunt — but I don't see him as an elite pass rusher in today's NFL because he doesn't have that burst that you've got to have,” NFL Network analyst Jamie Dukes said. “He's a 3-4 edge rusher who doesn't have that super burst.”

                              Despite not having superlative speed — he ran a 4.9 40 on a chilly Georgia pro day last year — or significant stats in 2013 (only one sack), Jones was given a vote of confidence when the Steelers released former Pro Bowl linebacker LaMarr Woodley two months ago.

                              With Woodley now with the Raiders, Jones and Jason Worilds look to be locked in as the outside linebacker starters, barring injury.

                              After an intense offseason working out and studying the defense, and some strong practices to date, Jones thinks the Steelers will like what they see from him this season.

                              Mostly, they won't see what they saw last season.

                              “Things have slowed down for me. … Last year I was thinking too much, I wasn't able to react, play and do the things I like to do,” Jones said Thursday as the Steelers wrapped up the second of their four weeks of offseason practices.

                              “I'm more of a guy that moves and plays off instincts. Last year, I wasn't able to do that. I really didn't know what was going on around me as far as, if I'm rushing outside, I can't go inside the tackle because I've got a blitz coming up the middle. I wasn't able to be myself. I was limited to a lot of things.”

                              As Jones said, it's called “being a rookie.”

                              Linebackers coach Keith Butler agrees.

                              “He pretty much didn't know where to line up last year,” Butler said. “If somebody wasn't there to help him and tell him what he was supposed to be doing, he was playing half a second slow. The great thing about playing in this defense is that it is tough to play in your first year, but the second year everything slows down.”

                              The Steelers also brought in someone else to help — former Pro Bowl linebacker Joey Porter, who was hired as a defensive assistant in part so he could mentor Jones.

                              “He and Jarvis are probably the same guy, their style of play,” Butler said.

                              Jones is stronger, Butler said, although he remains listed at 6-foot-2 and 245 pounds.

                              “I see my game changing, as far as being in the weight room and grinding in there — I see it when I'm out here on the field,” Jones said. “It's getting better.”

                              Butler also was encouraged by Jones' play late in the season; Jones had 10 quarterback hurries in the final three games and 10 tackles in the final two games, including eight against the Browns. Overall, Jones' 25 QB hurries led the team.

                              “I didn't make as many plays as I should have, and they were out there,” Jones said. “But that's last year, and I'm looking at a totally different year.

                              “I'm just a whole lot better than I was last year.”

                              [URL]http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...#ixzz33qeplSvZ[/URL]

                              Comment

                              • Shoe
                                Hall of Famer
                                • May 2008
                                • 4044

                                #30
                                Originally posted by hawaiiansteel
                                “He can hunt — he can find that ball and hunt — but I don't see him as an elite pass rusher in today's NFL because he doesn't have that burst that you've got to have,” NFL Network analyst Jamie Dukes said. “He's a 3-4 edge rusher who doesn't have that super burst.”
                                He's not an "elite" pass rusher. I think that is pretty obvious. He runs 4.9. He can't beat NFL tackles by simply lining up and whipping them--too slow, too small. But as Dukes said, he does have ability. This is where the coaching and personnel come in.

                                Personnel has done their job. They brought in Shazier to team with Timmons. That inside cross blitz should be back in the playbook soon. They also brought in Tuitt, who can provide pressure. Coaching has to do their job now. They've moved Heyward to Jarvis' side, thereby giving him more opportunities with lesser blockers (TEs, RBs). He better feast on those.

                                It is these tweaks that are going to say how Jarvis develops, because the guy isn't Von Miller, Aldon Smith, or Clay Matthews. He is in Peezy/Greg Lloyd mold more (both of whom also couldn't beat good OTs very often).
                                I wasn't hired for my disposition.

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